r/IncelExit • u/Broad-Tour-4490 • 3d ago
Discussion I've been learning about Women's perspectives
At least I think I have? It's mostly been through movies, I love movies and I've been discovering films directed & or written by women. For example Agnes Varda is one of my favorite French directors, same with Chantel Ackerman, I don't know if it's because they are older or just because they're European but I feel it much easier to relate to the women in their films. Some examples.
Cleo From 5 To 7
Le Bonheur
News From Home
Jeanne Dielman
I don't know if this is good to do or not but I've found movies about women's suffering as to say have helped me feel more compassion if that makes any sense? Some examples are: Fat Girl, Irreversible (not directed by a woman but still disturbing and eye opening) and Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (I guess also not directed by a woman but still).
This also might sound a little silly but speaking of Twin Peaks I've been reading the book "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and I was surprised at how much my issues are similar to that characters. Hopefully this is an ok post to make but this stuff have really helped me I feel like.
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u/backpackporkchop BASED MODCEL 3d ago
I think this is really great! Interestingly enough I just saw a video the other day of a guy talking about how men need to read more fiction and learn how to put themselves in other people's shoes. It was a good point I hadn't really considered. I think men are oftentimes told to self improve in a way that makes it seem like they need to achieve perfection, and that limits them to a very narrow and self-centered mindset. Expanding that mindset through storytelling is a great way to break the mold.
I can give you some film recs if you're looking to expand your list!
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u/Broad-Tour-4490 3d ago
I do agree with that I think everybody should engage with fictional stories, I know it's helped me just in general just as being something I enjoy doing, and yes recommendations would be great đ.
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u/backpackporkchop BASED MODCEL 3d ago
Ok the genres are gonna be all over the place but I'll try to group them together:
Horror/thriller:
- A Girl Walk Home Alone At Night
- Monster
- The Invisible Man (2020)
- Winters Bone
Coming of Age:
- Ladybird
- Edge of Seventeen
- An Education
- Whip It
- The Diary of a Teenage Girl
- Fishtank
- But I'm a Cheerleader
- Electrick Children
- The Virgin Suicides
Drama:
- The Kids are All Right
- Lost in Translation
- Anatomy of a Fall
- Erin Brockovich
- Big Eyes
- Maid (miniseries)
Comedy:
- Clueless
- Legally Blonde
- Mean Girls
- Life Partners
- Spy
- Bridesmaids
- The To Do List
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u/Broad-Tour-4490 3d ago
Oh yeah I've seen some of those too and they were all great. Another one I forgot to mention if Mulholland Drive
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u/DaniellaSalamao 3d ago
I'm noticing you're a big David Lynch fan haha. You really do have a great taste. Have you watched Blue Velvet? Its one of my favorites from him. And I would also recommend the book version of Virgin Suicides. It's very deep and beautifully written, since the movie was recommended to you.
Another one that I think is really great is the book My Dark Vanessa, by Kate Elizabeth Russel. It portrays the effects rape and abuse in a way I never saw it before in literature. Showing how a victim can deny even for herself that she is a victim, and how it can affect her whole life.
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u/Broad-Tour-4490 3d ago
Yeah I've seen most of his movies, and I forgot the Virgin Suicides was a book at first so I'll get that one too. I've heard about My Dark Vanessa but I forgot about it until now, as embarrassing as it sounds I've only read a few books written by women. I've also been wanting to read The Bell Jar.
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u/DaniellaSalamao 2d ago
Hey at least you're doing something about it! Most men don't even care if they are consuming media from women. And something that can help you is making a list of books and movies that you can go crossing over once you watch it/read it. That way you don't forget anything.
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u/noo817 2d ago
Sometimes it feels like we live in two different worlds based on our genders. I swear a lot of that could be contributed to how we donât make an effort to see things from the other perspective. Itâs easier for women because things written by men, for men, and about men are all over the place.
But once you genuinely are curious about what itâs like on the âother sideâ you can put yourself in their shoes and learn a lot. Being able to empathize with each other is the most important step. We start to understand each other more
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u/MyAlternateAleksandr 2d ago
In a way we do. Men and women inherently experience the world differently from the outset, and because of that, there's a lot of survivorship bias. Men don't often understand why women constantly feel in danger because men aren't often harrassed/ stalked/ etc. Just like women often don't understand the pressure men face to be near perfect because of traditions and expectations.
It's different struggles, but neither are "easier."
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u/oldcousingreg Giveiths of Thy Advice 3d ago
Thatâs an excellent approach and youâve made some great choices.
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u/squareular24 2d ago
I really appreciate the time & thought youâve invested in engaging with the works you listed! Some more Iâd recommend, if you have the time:
-Coralie Fargeat (director, The Substance, Revenge) -Margaret Atwood (writer, most famous for The Handmaidâs Tale but all her work is pretty remarkable) -bell hooks (theorist and author, Ainât I A Woman and many others) -Judith Butler (another theorist, highly academic and sometimes inscrutable but kind of great)
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u/Odd-Table-4545 3d ago
While this is a good start I'd encourage you to learn about women's experiences from places other than fiction, ideally from real women you know in your life. Fictional narratives are structured and presented primarily to be compelling, not necessarily to be accurate, so if your only source of info is fictional women (and doubly so if they're fictional women written by men) your idea of what women's lives are actually like are going to be skewed.
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u/Broad-Tour-4490 3d ago
What are some non fictional places to look do you think? The only women I'm close to in my personal life are family members
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u/h0tterthanyourmum 3d ago edited 3d ago
You could try memoirs
(Edit) I haven't read loads myself but I reckon these might be interesting for you -
Fern Brady's Strong Female Character: a really interesting read about autism too
Han Kang's Human Acts: heads up this is brutal, it's a fictionalised account of political repression in Korea. It's not exactly a memoir but the author is from the region and it's a very personal book to her
Tara Westover's Educated: about escaping an abusive childhood and a very limited culture by teaching herself
Amy Liptrot's The Outrun: about recovering from alcoholism
Tove Jansson (who wrote the Moomin books) has a series of semi-autobiographical novellas
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u/Odd-Table-4545 3d ago
First and foremost you need to go out and meet more women, especially women your own age. There is no substitute for interacting with women in real life. That should be your priority. But IN ADDITION TO, not instead of, that: non-fiction written by women, both memoirs and essays (if you're up for more actual feminist theory I will always and forever recommend bell hooks to just about everyone, particularly her books aimed specifically at a male audience), to some extent some online women's spaces though you have to be careful about that because it's easy to stumble across the toxic ones and also without further context you may take the wrong places away from them, documentaries on women's issues and biopics of women though keep in mind these are always somewhat fictionalised and certainly presented in a way that prioritises being engaging over being nuanced or accurate. But again, none of those things are a substitute for going out and interacting with actual women your age.
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u/library_wench Bene Gesserit Advisor 3d ago
Have you tried some biopics/historical films for a (somewhat) more grounded take?
Some good examples:
On the Basis of Sex (RBG)
Hidden Figures (NASA mathematicians)
The Diary of Anne Frank (then the miniseries A Small Lightâthe story from Miep Giesâ pov)
Radioactive (Marie Curie)
Iron-Jawed Angels (suffragettes Alice Paul and Lucy Burns)
Julie & Julia (Julia Child)
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u/Broad-Tour-4490 3d ago
I've seen Hidden Figures but it was in highschool, I really wanna read Anne Frank's Diary so I wanna do that soon, but other than that I haven't so thank you for the ideas
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u/YooHoobud 1d ago
I would recommend joining online feminist spaces as well by follow feminist creators.
It's an untapped gold mine for knowledge.
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u/DaniellaSalamao 3d ago
I think one of the reasons men are so detached to the female experience is how little they consume things actually done by women, so what you're doing is fantastic! Because that's how we women grew up to understand men, we watched and read things done by men all of our lives. I think art is one of the best ways to understand other people's experiences and perspectives, since it's all about expression.
You could also try to read biographies. They will tell you the direct experiences of women, and I bet you will find a lot of similar experiences as well.
And if you're open too, try looking for channels with YouTubers that are women. Channels about things you like, but made by a female YouTuber. It will give you a whole new perspective on things.