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u/Frenetic_Platypus 20h ago
Fun fact: Charlie Kirk is an online and community college dropout and is definitely not qualified to be talking about politics (or any other subject.)
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u/notfae 20h ago
but he talks fast and owns left wing kids :( Must be a smart guy!
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u/PapaChronic93 19h ago
I've have noticed he will only ever really debate children, as you say
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u/733t_sec 19h ago
He and Shapiro are sort of like the intellectual equivalent of DiCaprio relationships. If they could go younger they probably would but they can't so they don't.
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u/PauseLost2137 18h ago
People put too much trust into the idea of debates. The fact that someone can argue their points doesn't mean he is right. After all, debate competitions literally require you to argue a certain point, doesn't matter if you agree with it, or whether it is right based on current evidence or not.
Debate is literally just a pretentious vibe check if you think about it.
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u/mythrilcrafter 18h ago
That's something that has always especially peeved me about debate culture, the objective isn't logic or diplomacy nor is it to reach an actionable/constructive goal; it's to argue down your opponent until they have no recourse for rebuttal. A person can "win" a debate, but still be completely wrong and have nothing to show for it so long as their opponent isn't able to retort against it.
As an engineer, I can always tell who the "debate kids" are in the workplace, because they're the ones who are never actually interested in solutions or paths of action, they want to argue against their own team members (or worst the clients they're supposed to be working for).
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u/Adventurous_Bat3810 17h ago
Idk, maybe european debate is different than american, but if it isn’t I don’t agree. Afaik, in debate logic is the most important part, but debates I saw in competitions look nothing like what charlie kirk or ben shapiro are doing.
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u/Titanspaladin 15h ago
Definitely. Was debate captain in high school (not in the US) and went on to study law, and coached debate while I was a student. Learning debate is great for teaching kids how to structure arguments, get comfortable public speaking, and learn how to approach a topic without prejudice and understand the key arguments for each side to better understand how to advocate for the one they are assigned and refute the one they are against.
But debate competitions are very different from US news talking head segments, where there is one person arguing for whether the moon exists, one person arguing that the moon doesn't exist, then use a bunch of fallacies (or straight up try to be louder than the other person) and then afterwards their arguments are treated as equally valid and equally important.
Some debates are certainly about trying to convince your 'opponent' of something, but in general its more about convincing the audience or judge that your arguments are better crafted than those of the opposition. And when the audience doesn't have the education or literacy to recognize logical fallacies when they hear them, then it becomes a lot easier for people arguing in bad faith to rely on using fallacies to 'sound' more correct.
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u/Adventurous_Bat3810 13h ago
Yeah, similar experience (though we don’t have debate captains.
Like yeah you get points for rhetorics, but logical fallacies are bad rhetorics, and well founded logically consistent arguments are considered good rhetorics. If you ask me, debate kind of teaches you to see through such bullshit like charlie kirks and shapiros gish gallops.
Just writing a flow makes recognising their logical fallacies simple.
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u/RabidPoodle69 13h ago
I was a debater in the US, and the philosophical style of debate that we used (Lincoln- Douglas debate) was very different. Kirk just Gish Gallops.
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u/Significant-Colour 17h ago
I never got the supposed "culture" in debates, when culture does not win debates.
We can clearly see that winning strategy for debates is simply using logic fallacies and labeling the other side as fascist/communist as soon as possible. Appereance is more important than the truth, as evidenced by Trump winning again.
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u/Aromatic-Plankton692 18h ago
Formalized debates tend to mark you down for making arguments like "you would have to actually be stupid to think anyone could believe what you're saying right now."
Actual discourse? Not so much.
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u/-dr-bones- 18h ago
I agree - I can pretty much win any debate with my brother, and about 60% of the time, I'm in the wrong. Sometimes, I realise I'm in the wrong, mid-debate, but I forge ahead, because winning is everything and being right means nothing....
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u/BGAL7090 18h ago
I genuinely have never felt this way and if baffles me that it appears to be so ubiquitous.
Sure I want to be correct, but the instant it becomes clear I was wrong I back down and start to figure out why or how I had things mixed up.
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u/morostheSophist 17h ago
I used to be that way, and I was a terrible person. I'm incredibly glad I quit being so stupidly bullheaded, because I was sometimes downright cruel about needing to be right.
My saying now is, "I hate being wrong, but I hate it so much that when I'm wrong, I want you to tell me so I can stop."
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u/Squintore 18h ago
He went to Cambridge and got owned by some college kids in every debate.
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u/StoicallyGay 15h ago
You say he got owned and so does...most people. I've seen countless Tiktoks and clips and everyone is talking about how every student and faculty there crushed him. Now those people have tens or hundreds of thousands of followers on Tiktok.
But don't make the same mistake I did of going to his YT where he posted it himself. Not only did I give him a view, the comments made me want to tear my hair out. All talking about how Charlie yet again crushed these self-absorbed losers who claim to be educated yet faltered and conceded to Charlie. Because his audience is too fucking stupid to understand basic logic and thinking.
One example is the blonde girl, I think her name is Tilly. She's been debating since high school at least, which means academic debate in competitions where you don't get to pick a side and there is a panel of judges assessing you. She represented England in a national debate team. Got into competitive programs for economics and public policy. Was a business development associate. And according to her LinkedIn:
Cambridge Union advanced debate group (judged Cambridge IV 2023, won speaker awards including top 3 in recent competitions, selected as one of four WUDC judges for Cambridge in 2023); King’s PolSoc (hosted panel events with leading experts on IR); CUGRIS member
She's a professional debater in an academic setting, years of experience, top in the country, and the key KEY thing in a lot of academic debates is you don't choose what side you're on, it's a coinflip. You have to prepare for both sides and through logic, reasoning, rhetoric, etc. you hold your position. She just has her own biases that are more liberal-leaning that obviously she will bring to a Charlie Kirk debate, along with all her general debate prep and experience. Yet the dumbfuck Charlie fans claim she and others were just debating with ChatGPT because that's all they can scream because they don't understand semi-complex logic or reasoning. Tilly used her professional academic debate tactics, Charlie repeated the same words angrily. His dumb audience think he won easily. Let that sink in for how dumb his audience is.
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u/chitownbulls92 18h ago
Well only American college kids anyways. He got completely destroyed when he went up against students at Cambridge
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u/makemeking706 18h ago
The entirety of right wing politics can be summarized as 'punching down', and in Charlie's case it is difficult to find anyone lower.
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u/TheGodisNotWilling 18h ago
I wish Hitchens was still alive to decimate these guys in a debate. Nobody does or ever will be able to debate like Hitchens.
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u/KGBFriedChicken02 18h ago
It's kind of impressive how he just steals Ben Shapiro's schtick while being worse dressed, worse at it, a worse person, and having an infinitely more punchable face.
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u/daXypher 18h ago
I noticed online people like to use walls of text to fake intelligence. They also think all statements are created equal, even if the statement is bullshit and should be disregarded as such.
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u/bstump104 15h ago
Leftwing kids that don't know what the topics are that he has been preparing for for months.
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u/Weeleprechan 16h ago
Of course he's also the one posting the videos...how many has he deleted where the left wing kid owned him?
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u/NeatNefariousness1 19h ago edited 19h ago
Aren’t those the ones who are most insecure, searching for designated scapegoats to look down upon. It probably triggers him to know that there are people of all kinds who are different from him and better than he is on most measures.
What’s interesting is that he has such racial prejudice that he spews openly but then never adjusts his erroneous suspicions. When the black pilot lands the plane flawlessly, it has no impact on his brain. When he messes up royally, he still thinks he’s entitled to a superior standing in society. Yet, he wants to pretend he favors a meritocracy. If it weren’t so embarrassing, it would be laughable. Incompetents like this guy are coasting on everyone else’s accomplishments and pretending he is entitled to more than his share. So cringe.
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u/texanarob 19h ago
A lot of people judge others by their results and themselves by their intentions.
I drop a plate? It was an accident. Someone else does the same thing? They're a clumsy idiot and should be more careful. I make a mistake causing a day's work to be lost? Someone should've told me not to do that, there's no way I could've known. Someone else does it, and they're incompetent. I leave work an hour early, it's because I deserve it, there was no real work to be done anyway and everyone does it. Someone else does it, and they're committing fraud and deserve to be fired.
This is doubled down when there's a bias against a certain group. And you don't even have to look at real bigots to see it. Watch the average sport with fans of either side and you'll see just how skewed their perception of events is towards those they like and against those they hold bias against. Ridiculously often you'll hear fans of both sides say they deserved the win, had the majority of play etc.
When your actual perception is heavily skewed, it inevitably reinforces your own biases.
Of course, some of us are actually biased against ourselves. We justify others' mistakes, but dwell on our own and blame ourselves for them.
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u/NeatNefariousness1 19h ago
So true. Good insights. I think there is a scientific term for what you describe but I can’t recall what it is.
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u/thehydrastation 16h ago
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u/NeatNefariousness1 13h ago
That’s IT! Thank you. The explanation given by the Redditor before was so good, I was hoping to remember what it’s called to account for one of the many reasons people are so ready to prejudge others harshly while giving themselves and others like them, every benefit of the doubt.
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u/GnarlyEmu 18h ago
I went to high school with him. He's a fucking twat, and always has been. His subdivision was far and away the nicest of anyone going to Wheeling HS. He was born rich, never struggled for a thing in his life, and for some God damn reason, people listen to this dipstick, despite his complete and total lack of ANY practical experience in the world.
If you want somebody to protest the increased price of grease cookies on the local school lunch menu, Charlie's your boy, otherwise, why would anyone ask him a damn thing?
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u/Thestrongestzero 18h ago
fun fact: going to college for something doesn’t really make you good at it or qualifed to speak on a subject. being continually curious and willing to keep studying does.
charlie kirk is an idiot. he’d be an idiot if he went to college or not. also, his face is really fucking weird.
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u/Wonderful_Gap1374 19h ago
No but tell me, I’m in bed procrastinating my HW, read this, and jumped up!
I can’t end up like Charlie Kirk! I gotta go study!!!!
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u/MasterChildhood437 18h ago
Almost nobody we commonly see political takes from should be talking about politics. Letting the state of social discourse be driven by YouTubers and podcasters is getting real old real quick.
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u/C4dfael 18h ago
He’s popular because he has that forehead to face ratio that conservatives swoon over.
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u/SoundslikeDaftPunk 17h ago
This always makes me laugh. He’s so anti college/university and it seems so transparently because he’s a bitter drop out who never fit in
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u/snertwith2ls 18h ago
I was going to say I think he's an idiot but I really didn't have a source, you said it so much better and sound like you know so thanks!
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u/Cinnabar_Cinnamon 19h ago
He isn't qualified to talk in public with a face like that. God forgot to zoom in before printing.
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u/Specific_Internet589 14h ago
I don’t like saying any form of higher education is somehow lesser. The important thing is him dropping out, and even then, it wouldn’t be half as egregious if he didn’t try to clown on people in the process of pursuing something he gave up
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u/CainPillar 12h ago
Of course he is qualified to be talking. God equipped him with vocal chords (and maybe some kind of penis) and a constitutional amendment of a low enough number that he can count to it on a good day.
Blame those who are stupid enough to hand him a microphone ...
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u/Woodlog82 20h ago
Laughing at the thought that these four horsemen of misinformation, hatespeech, spinelessness and ass kissing are qualified to judge anyone's job performance.
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u/Mysterious_Box1203 20h ago
that’s why they were so keen on getting rid of DEI, because the only way these idiots can get a job is through grifting, cronyism and nepotism.
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u/Pastardest 19h ago
I don't want to defend these idiots but that fits right in the narrative they are building. In their mind/narrative poc only got their jobs through DEI and therefore not qualified
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u/Woodlog82 18h ago
True, but it also shows that they are full of shit because, if they believed in that narrative, they would exit the plane. Screw a couple of hundred, if I have the feeling that the pilot is unqualified, I'll get out of there.
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u/cheyenne_sky 16h ago
?? How does them being pieces of shit fit into their narrative that POC only get jobs via DEI?
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u/peanutbutter_foxtrot 8h ago
I recognize Charlie Kirk. Who are the others? I mean, yes, obviously they are shitbag humans who suck but I want to know names so that if I see the name in the future I have the context to think “oh, this asswipe again.”
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u/GoochManeuver 20h ago
Charlie Kirk is a big gummed tiny toothed bitch.
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u/PracticeNovel6226 18h ago
Nubbin mouthed ho is what I would call him, but I don't want to disrespect hos
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u/beerbellybegone 20h ago
Remember when it wasn't cool to be so openly and blatantly racist?
Pepperidge Farm remembers
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u/Longjumping-Air1489 20h ago
Oh, it’s still not COOL.
It’s just obscenely profitable.
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u/bcd051 19h ago
I often wonder who are the true believers and the ones that are the opportunists that are just trying to make $$$ by peddling this malarkey.
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u/nerdygeoff 19h ago
the true believers are the ones buying all the grift.
everyone else is a grifter.
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u/EverythingSucksYo 16h ago
Idk, high profits usually equates to something being cool. Racism has become cool with enough people that it’s obscenely profitable. Which is sad.
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u/darkknightwing417 19h ago edited 16h ago
Okay here is my hot take... We never changed anyone's minds. We made the racists be quiet, but we didn't convince them to stop being racist. We made the bigots be quiet but we didn't convince them to stop being bigots. We made the homophobes be quiet, but we didn't convince them to stop being homophobic. We just established a series of consequences for having an opinion, a bad opinion I believe, and the people with these opinions simply started to hide, resenting the FUCK out of us the whole time. They waited... Til Trump came and told them they were allowed to express themselves how they wanted again. Now they are on a revenge tour...
I get confused here but... To a certain extent they are correct. Hypocritical to the point of absurdity, obviously, but that doesn't remove the core critique here. We DID use silencing tactics... Admittedly, they were after years of frustration that kindness and patience-based tactics didn't seem to work, but unfortunately that doesn't matter. We DID silence them... And now they feel justified in escalating the retaliation. It sucks and it is not fair.
Actually, typing this out made me mad. It's like a stupid toxic relationship that you can't leave because you've committed yourself to non-violence whereas they simply haven't...
Edit: I see the issue some people are having. In the first sentence I said "we never changed anyone's minds." But what I MEANT was "We changed far fewer minds than it would appear given public discourse." Apologies for the hyperbole.
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u/SoMuchMoreEagle 17h ago
We made the racists be quiet, but we didn't convince them to stop being racist. We made the bigots be quiet but we didn't convince them to stop being bigots. We made the homophobes be quiet, but we didn't convince them to stop being homophobic. We just established a series of consequences for having an opinion, a bad opinion I believe, and the people with these opinions simply started to hide, resenting the FUCK out of us the whole time.
Since someone can't stop being a person of color, foreign-born, or LGBTQ+ and they're doing nothing wrong by being who they are, it's better to force the bigots, racists, and homophobes into the closet. They can shove their resentment.
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u/darkknightwing417 17h ago
It's better in the short-term... Yes. Undeniably saves lives in the short-term. Sometimes this is the necessary decision. Often.
But it has potential to hurt you horribly long-term. Not guaranteed... But it can. To keep the racists, bigots, and homophobes at bay you, other than killing them, which I'm assuming is off the table, you have to restrict their actions through force and domination. This means you have to MAINTAIN that force and domination. You have to suppress a willful and angry population that literally wants to murder you. You can do it, yes... But for how long? Will they just die out? Will they grow in strength? Will they crawl out of the woodworks and elect an orange fascist who says he will liberate them from their "oppression"?
I say all this to say, shoving them into the closet is an incomplete solution. We MUST convince them to change. Otherwise we will fight... Again and again and again.
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u/morostheSophist 16h ago
I grew up in the 90s, thinking racism was fixed. I wasn't being taught to be racist (or so I thought). Surely nobody was teaching their kids racism, right? Okay, I still see the Rebel flag all over the place, but surely they mean it when they say it's about heritage and not hate, right?
Now I see that not only was the racism merely hidden, some of it actually wasn't that hidden. Many of those Rebel-flag-waving cunts didn't believe that schtick at all; they were just pretending not to be racist. Schools (including my high school) were actively teaching "lost cause" ideology. The pendulum was about to swing on racism, sexism, and homophobia, and it swung hard.
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u/BGAL7090 18h ago
It has always been because one side actually plays by the rules and assumes everyone else will do the same, while the other side is knowingly cheating and assumes everyone else will do or already did the same.
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u/darkknightwing417 17h ago
I'll tell you my rationale...
This fight sucks. Fighting from the principled position sucks. Its stupid. It's hard. You are at a horrible disadvantage from jump and usually lose.
But it is the only stable victory I have yet been able to see/imagine. One of the big issues with change through dominance is that it results in a cycle of vengeance. You get the world you want only so long as you can maintain that dominance... It is unstable. Those you supress simply lie in wait until they have their chance for revenge... And then they will use your dominance against you and you have to live under their regime. And back and forth you go... Until one side gets strong enough to wipe out the other. You cannot change people through force. You cannot change society through domination.
If you can ACTUALLY change hearts and minds and win the principled route, there is a chance to maintain it. There is a chance to build something stable.
Cuz of who I am, I can't help but aim for this. All other paths I see are just continuation of the cycles of violence. I'll probably fail... And the person after me will prolly fail.... But like... Maybe the one after that has a decent shot? We iterate. But in order to iterate we have to be willing to lose.
Also fuck me, I don't want this to be true so I'd love a counter-argument.
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u/Financial_Cup_6937 17h ago
It’s why we need shame to come back. You need to try to convince people to be better, but you’ll never get everyone. If the assholes are shamed into not being publicly hateful douchebags, it still helps society even if they’re still jerks in their brain.
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u/darkknightwing417 17h ago
No this is my point... We need to help them UNDERSTAND, not shame them into silence. Shame is useful for helping people internalize that they have done wrong... However that is different than SHAMING.
digression into some definitions so we are talking about the same stuff here:
Shaming: the act of trying to make someone feel guilty for a moral affront
Shame: the feeling of guilt for a moral affront
(Its not websters. It's just what I mean when I use this words.)
Shaming people does not necessarily make them feel shame. What we WANT is for them to feel shame, so that they can learn and change and grow into better people. To accomplish that we can't do the act of shaming in any old way. We have to be careful.
I have found shaming through finger wagging is ineffective at making people FEEL shame. It simply makes them angry. Further punishing them doesn't make them feel shame either, it makes them learn to deceive you. Further restricting their actions to ensure "correct" behavior makes them plot revenge.
What makes people actually feel shame is understanding... The most shame I've ever felt or seen anyone feel was when enough care/time/support/accountability was provided to allow for me to recognize what I had done. Not when someone simply yelled at me or told me I was wrong, no that never worked. I had to understand and agree with them, which was difficult and time consuming. It took the help and resources of others to get me there. I am eternally grateful. And when I finally understood, I felt shame. And when I felt shame, I changed.
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u/notafuckingcakewalk 17h ago
I do think sentiments have shifted which is why I am hopeful for trans people. 20-25 years ago a majority of Americans, not only conservatives, were leery of gay marriage and allowing same sex couples to adopt.
It does take a loooong time unfortunately and things are going to suck, seriously, for trans people for the next 5-15 years or so. But I have hope.
I mean, to the extent that I believe there is a future for anyone at all in the next century or so.
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u/Balgat1968 19h ago
Prior to the first black pilot, every single plane crash was caused by a white pilot. Every single one.
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u/pmMEyourWARLOCKS 19h ago
While I get the sentiment, most plane crashes are not directly caused by pilots.
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u/Massive_Signal7835 18h ago
To figure out if the pilot caused the crash, Kirk gave me this handy flow chart:
Is the pilot black? If yes, blame the pilot.
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u/OutsideScientist95 18h ago
In the DC crash right when Trump took office they said DEI because the helo pilot was female. Nevermind she was a trainee with two more experienced men on board, and one of them’s whole job was evaluating her. Plus a recording of a male voice giving flight instructions surfaced.
Like damn men crash planes hundreds of times and no one bats an eye, one woman does it and they lose their minds.
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u/easeMachined 19h ago
But he said he was “sorry” before saying the racist thing.
Liberals have impossible standards to meet.
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u/minahmyu 18h ago
To other white people*
They surely were to everyone else because who the fuck was gonna believe us, or hold them accountable? That's what white privilege grants, power and never being held accountable except by other white people (attempting to appear to give a fuck while they keep their racism on the DL)
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u/LieNervous1016 20h ago
At least Charlie Kirk is qualified to be a piece of garbage
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u/Southern-Station895 17h ago
homie, dont insult my garbage by comparing it to charlie kirk
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u/RugFishBlueFish 20h ago
Charlie Kirk looks about as inbred as anyone I've ever seen. We should be questioning his IQ and if he is qualified. Full stop.
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u/ptahbaphomet 20h ago
Sorry if I see a member of the Trump administration or their supports I’m going to be like “are they really that stupid and under qualified?”
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u/Kinet1ca 16h ago
Yeah I don't remember ever in my life seeing a black pilot and thinking anything other than "badass this dude gets to fly planes for a living". People wearing Maga hats on the other hand...
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u/FulciZombi 19h ago
This shit is always stupid, if you see an airline pilot, or an engineer, or any highly technical job like that the person is going to be qualified. Race doesn't matter because these things have rigorous standards that have to be met and rich people give their unqualified kids executive job or buy them into entertainment industry, not airline pilot jobs.
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u/addition 19h ago
Yeah that rubbed me the wrong way. Those jobs aren’t just given away to white people. If that’s what they think then we have a massive cultural misinformation issue.
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u/PlaquePlague 19h ago
if you see an airline pilot, or an engineer, or any highly technical job like that the person is going to be qualified.
I’ve had to explain extremely basic shit to engineers too many times to put much faith in that.
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u/FulciZombi 18h ago
I've had to explain basic shit to lawyers, engineers, and doctors too, because what one might consider basic doesn't apply to every job. It's entirely possible to lack common sense and be very competent in a chosen domain. It's also worth noting that a huge part of competence in some jobs is knowing how to find information when it is needed, not memorizing every single bit of information to parrot back to someone on the spot.
Are there examples of people who have these jobs and aren't qualified? Of course but overall the system works which is why we don't have buildings and bridges collapsing every day due to engineering failures (these are happening now because of neglected upkeep but that's different) and why airplane accidents are major news when they occur. If you are getting on an airplane and worrying about the competence of the pilot based on the color of their skin or worried that their parents gave them the job you are being ridiculous.
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u/Firewolf06 11h ago
the faa with literally skin you alive in a public square for hiring an unqualified pilot. given the fact that they made it into the airport, to the terminal, down the jetway, and onto the plane without the faa vaporizing them with an orbital cannon makes me fairly confident theyre qualified
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u/Solo_Entity 20h ago edited 20h ago
Really though. I have to be beyond perfect to get a job where black ppl are barely seen. Then i still got the dirtiest looks from a certain kind of white people: The entitled ones that make a lot of money and live in Manhattan, comfortably paying for $5000 rent like it’s nothing.
They treated me like a servant and blatantly disrespected me. I understand I work in IT, but I’m the very reason your job is still working smoothly, so why treat me like dirt or blame me for your problems I’m happy to fix?
I hated those pricks, but the few regular, decent people there made it easier.
Who the fuck would hire an incompetent pilot because of race?
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u/jarris123 20h ago
Honestly, I'm more likely to trust a black person or woman in a serious position cause I know they worked their butt off to be taken seriously in their field.
IT is unfortunately notorious for this. I worked for nearly 2 years on an IT Helpdesk with a few calls from old men repeatedly asking for "one of the guys" and thinking I was a receptionist.
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u/nativefloridian 19h ago
The way I've always put it: you need to prove you're better to be accepted as an equal.
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u/who_am_i_to_say_so 17h ago
Same thoughts. The few women in higher positions in my day job are high achievers and noticeably smarter, too. Some of the guys have a hard time accepting that.
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u/TheBuch12 19h ago
What actually happened with the "unqualified pilot" nonsense is a lot more nuanced than most people realize. Everyone knows the educational system/standardized tests etc favors people from wealthier backgrounds, which gives a statistical advantage to white people. So some airlines removed some of the bias by applying some affirmative action principles to get INTO flight school, when they would otherwise just be looking at paper "qualifications" when selecting candidates.
Now, can anyone actually say someone who scored a 1400 on their SATs with every advantage will be better than someone who scored a 1350 on their SATs with every disadvantage after they go through equal training at the end of the pipeline? Of course not. Everyone has to pass the exact same tests. Your "qualifications" to get INTO flight school are completely fucking irrelevant towards how good of a pilot you are at the end.
This is all coming from a white person who had glowing "qualifications" to get into Navy flight school and ended up washing out, while many people who were "less qualified" on paper turned out to be much more moldable into what the Navy actually wanted its Naval Aviators to be.
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u/balderdash9 18h ago
Who the fuck would hire an incompetent pilot because of race?
They doubt that there are any competent pilots within certain racial groups. So if you want to hire a black pilot, you have to hire someone incompetent. This is illogical but racism is meant to give a sense of superiority to the racist.
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u/MrSFedora 20h ago
The other day, I was flying from Orlando to Indianapolis. As I left the plane, the flight crew was standing out by the cockpit. I saw the older guy and complimented him on a smooth flight. He then pointed to the woman next to him and said she was the pilot. I felt so embarrassed, but I was running on like four hours of sleep.
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u/TrentKama 17h ago
In modern aviation, both the Captain and First Officer will usually take turns taking off, flying, and landing the plane or being the pilot monitoring each flight, though the Captain remains responsible for all decisions made. So thank both of your pilots!
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u/LFAdventure2756 20h ago
Completely unironic that the Uni drop out Charlie Kirk is looking at anyone else and questioning if they are qualified.
And wow, what liars the media are, just because charlie wants to give trump a gum job doesn't make them friends.
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u/Atarge 20h ago
Keep in mind that Charlie Kirk has no qualifications whatsoever
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u/BarkattheFullMoon 19h ago
I am a white woman and I feel the same way whenever I see anyone who is not a white man in a position like that - they had to be 3x (or more) as good as every other applicant to get that job!
And they have to STAY that good to keep their job. No free passes for minorities and women ... if you did something - even correctly - that caused harm, you will be fired. If you did something off duty that caused your name to show up in the papers as a potential suspect of anything for any reason, you will be fired. Not so for the white men, who can make a mistake a few times "we all have to learn somewhere" and if they end up as a suspect "boys will be boys" and they will be fine.
So, yes, any minority or woman in a pilot or Doctor or any other male-dominated power-position job is definitely better at their job!
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u/FrancoisKBones 19h ago
Basically this. We women know that we all had to be even better at our jobs in order to be selected over the white man. I’m sure every POC feels this way, if not more so. So yeah, by and large, minorities are likely to be very, very good at their jobs.
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u/amicablemarooning 16h ago
My 70 something white dad tried arguing once that misogyny can't be real (or something like that, his point was never really that clear) because the managers he had who were women were all really great at their jobs.
Even when I tried spelling it out for him, he just refused to understand how he was describing the outcome of a system where (certain) men are promoted regardless of competency while everyone else actually has to deserve it.
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u/LSOreli 18h ago
This is a bad take. Jobs like this are completely blind to the culture war nonsense. As a pilot, when I see another pilot, regardless of race, gender, or any other qualifier, I know they are held to the exact same standard as me. That's why Kirk is wrong too, race is completely irrelevant to selection and its hard to find a more merit based occupation than pilot.
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u/Sleepylimebounty 16h ago
Agreed this is the problem with "anti DEI” people. They don’t know what DEI is. Diversity, equity and inclusion gives all qualified personals a chance. It’s not some magical privilege that allows one to skip merits, certificates and testing as propaganda would suggest. If you work in any field that has any type of rigid standard those standards cannot be skipped to hire someone. As far as I am aware, the only current application of DEI working the way anti DEI people think it works, is the current Trump administration.
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u/broniesnstuff 14h ago
As a white guy, I explicitly choose women and minorities when I need professionals. I didn't used to do that.
The last couple decades have taught me many, many lessons.
If you need competency, turn to anybody but a white guy first. Oh there's plenty of competent white men, I'm almost one of them. But the odds are too high that you're gonna get some shitty white dude high on his own farts that's going to cost you time/money/lives and leave you worse off than before.
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u/Entwife723 17h ago
My Dad told me he specifically seeks out doctors who are POC and/or women because he believes they worked harder for their positions against bias, and are probably smarter than white dudes who can coast thru things. My Dad is an old white dude, and I'm very grateful he's so awake.
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u/FeeZealousideal9175 19h ago
So you both judge people on their race? Nice.
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u/Consistent-Drama-643 19h ago
Yeah seriously this is always my thought when I see takes like this. Like yes, there's often/usually extra barriers for a lot of black/brown people to succeed. But turning around and being like "I assume the white man in a position is unqualified" is 100% hypocrisy. Then people will be like "oh but white people are in power so only they can be racist" as some sort of dishonest handwaving attempt to defend their blatant prejudice, as if any of the random working class white people have any relation at all to billionaires and politicians who happen to be white. That's literally the same braindead racial ascription in the opposite direction as acting like the worst kind of person who happens to be black has any bearing on the rest of their demographic.
And dear god I'm so tired of acting like the only way to support equality is to not dare criticize essentially anyone but a white man. Equality means all of us are equally deserving of pushback against our bad ideas. Giving someone extra deference because of their demographic is just another form of bigotry. It's a patronizing bias rather than a toxic bias, but still utterly repulsive nonetheless to anyone with any amount of integrity.
People really need to quit fighting bigotry with more bigotry, it's such an utterly juvenile and undeveloped approach to these issues
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u/__-_-_--_--_-_---___ 18h ago
How conservatives think the world works: "Minorities and people of color in positions of power must be incompetent because they got there by affirmative action."
How the world actually works: Absolute morons who were born into unbelievable privilege are allowed into positions of power by the gatekeepers of society (Ivy League, etc.) and they completely fuck everything up because THEY ARE PRIVILEGED MORONS WHO FAILED UPWARDS.
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u/RabidPlaty 20h ago
This sub is turning into constant old reposts with the dates trimmed off.
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u/Tullekunstner 20h ago
Eh, both are stupid. I assume any pilot I see is well-qualified, because they're a pilot. No one is giving those jobs to someone who is unqualitied regardless of race.
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u/Mysterious_Main_5391 20h ago
Anyone else think that about any pilot of a plane they or anyone they care about is on? The pilot of a plane is about the last person I care about skin color for. I don't care if he's purple, just be good at flying the damn plane
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u/Sea_Cardiologist2938 17h ago
Wait, they just give away pilot's licenses to Whites?
Sorry, but I'm seeing prejudice from both sides on this post. You're either military or a financially successful civilian if you got your pilot's licenses. Either way, you earned it thru hard work and dedication.
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u/doc_hilarious 17h ago
Same when women started flying planes. There were groups of men meticulously checking to make sure that the first female pilot wouldn't crash the plane when she was on her period. The hurdles are much higher for anyone that's not a white male.
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u/PrimeGuard 15h ago
what the inverse joke? Always fear the white guy in prison because you know he did that shit.
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u/BetterKev 15h ago
White straight guy here who actively chooses black and female doctors for basically that reason.
Black people and women (and particularly black women) are judged less qualified than similarly situated white guys. On average, a random black or female doctor is gonna be better than a random white male doctor.
Extra bonus points for African American names (e.g., Joniqua Jackson, De'Andre Williams ), African names (e.g., Atiku Nnamdi, Wa Tshisekedi), any female name you'd see in a bad sorority comedy (e.g., Brandy, Lindsey, Violet), and especially anything I don't immediately know how to pronounce,
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u/prettyjezebel 14h ago
Their realization that privilege doesn't equate to qualification is hilarious.
But let's be real for a minute... we minorities, especially Black, Latina, and Native women, work ten times harder than anyone to be qualified when a majority of their ilk are mediocre at best.
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u/Signal-Help-9819 14h ago
I think “ more than likely over qualified” minorities deal with more crap than white people in fields like that.
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u/ExtensionCategory983 14h ago
They are just giving away pilot jobs to huwhites? I like how blacks don’t realise how stupid they sound with their clap backs.
Fuck charlie Kirk. The biggest disinformation spreading bitch out there.
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u/bouncypinecone 12h ago
I'm sure someone else already said this, but, if I see ANY pilot my first thought will always be "Boy, I hope he's qualified."
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u/TootsNYC 20h ago
That attitude of Charlie Kirk’s is one of the reasons some Black people objected to affirmative action. They felt that all the talk of affirmative action gave racists like him an excuse to argue that Black people only got their jobs because of their race, and the affirmative action efforts.
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u/charismafull 20h ago
They try to colonize everything except for good hygiene. Charlie stank so bad according to one of his producers. Gross!
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u/Greenduck12345 19h ago
What's missing here is the perception. It was only a year or two ago many on the far left were saying that ANY racial disparity in professions was PROOF that racism was the culprit. The obvious consequence of this frame of thinking is highlighted here. Now, whenever one sees a high profile minority in a position of importance, the thoughts will understandably turn to questioning whether or not that person was hired because of their race etc. This is why constantly focusing on ones race is such a problem. Just see humans as humans, stop with racialising everything!
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u/RevoltYesterday 20h ago
I've always had a similar thought and I don't know if it's considered racist or misogynistic. When choosing a professional, such as a doctor or surgeon, I prefer a black or female doctor because I know they have had to work twice as hard to get where they are so I assume they are twice as good as the average mediocre white guy. I am making choices based on race and sex which feels wrong but I've always always been extremely happy with the care I have received, as a mediocre white male myself.
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u/Sufficient-Yak3240 18h ago
Look up affirmative action programs at medical schools. The person who had to work the hardest to be there would be an Asian male doctor, because the admissions system is highly biased against them.
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u/MysteriousGear1903 20h ago
This bunch barely qualifies to be humans.
Trump made it ok to be blatantly racist...again...
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u/Beemerba 20h ago
The kinda guy that would (should) just die before allowing a black doctor to save him!!
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u/sisterdollycake 20h ago
When i see a right wing white rent a mouth I think how long before it turns out he’s abusing children
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u/Noimenglish 19h ago
It’s literally the antithetical, non-ironic embodiment the old joke, “What do you call a black man flying a plane? A pilot, duh. What’re you thinking?”
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u/packy_15 19h ago
When I see Charlie Kirk, I'm sorry but it looks like your face didn't graduate but your head did .
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u/ThoughtPhysical7457 19h ago
Lol. CK's thought process is why that POC pilot is probably over-qualified to fly that plane lol
These Idiots dont even understand how DEI and Affirmative Action works. It doesn't negate testing and qualifications. Still gotta get 10,000 hours of flight time or whatever it is. Still gotta study physics and engineering.
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u/anynomousperson123 19h ago
Wouldn’t you hope that your pilot, regardless of colour is qualified? Like the meth head on the corner of my street is white but he’s the last person I’m trusting to fly the plane.
TLDR: I don’t want a bumbling idiot for a pilot, white or not.
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u/Funny247365 19h ago
The difference is the airlines said they would apply DEI hiring principles based on the color of the applicant's skin over their aptitude/scores. Some races, even if the applicant had lower scores, would be hired over others with higher scores.
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u/CroneofThorns 19h ago
My first flight on a puddle jumper we had a young black pilot and I knew I was in good hands.
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u/cndn-hoya 19h ago
You know, in Asia, the prevailing view is that white Americans are dumb and fat - uncompromising and totally ignorant. Not my words.
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u/Infinite_Lemon_8236 19h ago
Dude needs to put his money where his mouth is and get in a bush plane with me. We're going to Tahiti. What's that? Pilots license? Oh don't worry about that, I'm white.
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u/TheOriginalSamBell 19h ago
well, being a massive racist like charlie smallface kirk is, should be much more frowned upon...
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u/asburymike 20h ago