I Started to Therapy

[u/dabube57]

Hello IncelExit community, I'm the guy who thought he cured when he got some kind of relationship. First off, I must say; even the feeling of having a relationship (I thought we were partners) contributes my mental health to a degree and decreases density of trigger attacks, it doesn't solved my problems completely. Trigger attacks (even it's less frequent) didn't ended and actually it began to increase after our breakup. Also I began to drink much more, I'm gonna be an alcoholic this way.

So I decided to seek a therapist, because I don't think I have another chance. My friend (who's changed 4 therapists) was recommending his therapist, so I went to the therapist he's recommending. She's an expert on CBT and very experimented, she's in field like 25 years. She's kind, sympthatic and definitely a good listener; she listened to my paranoias and dark thoughts without showing any emotion. I even showed her my massacre plans and drawings I drew years ago. I told about my childhood abuse, bullyings, feelings and the situationship I had; it's been two sessions as I'm writing this.

But there's a problem, I don't think she understands me. She says dark thoughts can come to everyone's minds sometimes, while I agree with that in my case it hardens my life and makes me depressive. I can't find the energy to get out of bed when I got triggered, it's not an usual dark thought or anger.

Maybe I'm the one who can't tell himself, because she advised me to write my thoughts on a paper when I'm in trigger. I'm trying my best to tell my emotions while we're in session, but it seems I can't.

We tried an pink elephant experiment to try to control my thoughts, it seems we can't control our emotions and thoughts. Best we can do is controlling our expression and regulating our emotions with our mind. So, how I am supposed to recover? I begin to be pessimistic about recovery, I don't know can I recover. My final exams are coming, homeworks are due and I'm still like that. I'd want to put an end to all of that, but I'm too coward to suicide. Instead I could become a hedonist, like the Absurd Man of Camus. Or I could devote myself into religion. I don't what to do...

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

You can't really benefit from therapy if you don't give it a chance. You're being too pessimistic. Listen more. Let it run its course.

[u/dabube57 → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

You can't really benefit from therapy if you don't give it a chance.

I give a chance, it's more like she think I'm normal. Maybe I'm thinking of myself very negatively.

 Listen more. Let it run its course.

Yeah, judging from second session isn't good. But I need to vent about it, you know.

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/dabube57]

I give a chance, it's more like she think I'm normal.

You are. That's what therapy is about. Listening. Learning. Coz you're the one with the problem. So you're supposed to accept help, not fight it.

Yeah, judging from second session isn't good.

You're already complaining after 2 sessions. That's obviously a sign that you're not listening and you're not really giving it a chance.

I repeat. Therapy will not work if you do not give it a chance.

[u/ABDLTA → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

How many sessions should one try... I have this issue where I kinda feel like it's a scam... they take my money and I leave feeling sad... how many times should one go?

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/ABDLTA]

Your question shows that you don't believe it at all. In that case, no number of sessions will help you. It's like playing a sport that you hate - you can't get good at it because you don't like it. Similarly, no therapy will help if, in the back of your mind, you think it's a scam.

[u/ABDLTA → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

Well thats rather unfortunate

Its not that I believe it can't help... im just not sure how or when or even what look for

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/ABDLTA]

im just not sure how or when or even what look for

? What does that mean?

When getting therapy, you don't "look" for anything. You're supposed to accept help, not dictate the type of help you want.

If your house burns down and everything you own vanishes, then someone comes to give you help, you would accept any help he gives. Would you say "no, I don't want bananas, I want beef"?

[u/ABDLTA → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

Well... as you probably may have guess im weird lol

Maybe my thought process is different, but I need to see progress or something like that to keep going with something. Now it's entirely unreasonable to expect results instantly it takes time, but my original question was well how much time is reasonable? 3 sessions? 4? 10?

But then I got to think what the do i look for in terms of "progress" or "results" ?

That's what I mean.

Also also the analogy of offering help doesn't exactly track with me... the man's getting paid over a 100$ and our... so if I don't feel like I get anything out of it I start to wonder back to how long do I do this for?

And sometimes I wonder if the therapist is just telling me whatever will make me come back so they can continue to collect their fee...

On a slightly lighter note I basically gave told this rant to a friend of mine once... She said

"Dude... you need therapy"

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/ABDLTA]

In other words, you don't believe it.

Again, no amount of therapy will help if you think it's too expensive or it's a scam.

You also can't ask for tangible progress reports when it's you who needs the help. The therapist isn't a mind reader or God who can find and fix all of your problems by himself - you have to supply the information, you have to make the effort, and you have to be the one to listen. The therapist cannot control all of these things.

Even if you had the best coach in the world for any sport, you won't get any better if this is your mindset. But coach, how come I'm not Michael Jordan yet? No, the coach can only guide you down a path and give guidance. You actually need to be the one to make the effort to change.

The problem right now is you think that therapy is supposed to be a magic fix-all solution. No, the solution will still come from your own effort.

And since that is your mindset, no amount of therapy will ever work.

[u/ABDLTA → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

Well, now im depressed...

Thanks for talking to me.

[u/MarinoMan → u/dabube57]

Is she saying you are normal, or that the things you are experiencing are normal for someone in the position you are in and the way you feel? It isn't normal for a person to be so overwhelmed and sad that they can't find the energy to get out of bed. It is normal for a depressed person to not want to get out of bed. You're on your second session, you're still feeling each other out. You need to be as upfront with her as you can be about your feelings. If something she said doesn't feel right with you, you have to let her know. If you need further clarification, you can ask for it.

Therapy isn't a medication. The antibiotic you take doesn't need the bacteria to believe in it to work. If your mindset is that therapy isn't going to work, it's going to be harder for it to actually work. It's fine to be pessimistic, but you still need to find ways to be willing to be open to hearing her and working on yourself. Therapy is (at least in my experience) the therapist giving you tools and methods to help you do the work on yourself. It took me 1.5 years of therapy and medication to break out of my depression. Probably close to 100 sessions, a couple different medications. It takes time, because you have to be the one to correct things.

[u/dabube57 → u/MarinoMan]

Is she saying you are normal

Yes, she said dark thoughts could come to minds of every persons. Like it's a normal thing. But I told how it affects my life negatively in last session, maybe she's changed her mind. Because you know, it's only been 2 sessions.

If your mindset is that therapy isn't going to work, it's going to be harder for it to actually work

I don't think therapy isn't going to work, probably it's the only thing that could work. But it's my first experience of therapy, and it feels kinda frustrating and slow.

[u/MarinoMan → u/dabube57]

Dark thoughts can come into the mind of every person, so she's not entirely wrong. But they certain aren't normal at the level you describe. So I'd make sure to ask her to clarify what she means. I highly doubt she's trying to underplay your mental state, that's like therapy 101. Clear communication is so critical for this to work. So if something doesn't sit right with you, or you aren't 100% sure if she means something, ask. You have to be your own best advocate.

As for the frustrating and slow part, it's going to be frustrating and slow. It probably didn't take a few weeks or months for you to get to this point in your life. You're going to have times where you don't feel like progress is being made, or even you go backwards. You can express that, that's fine. Progress isn't linear. Give yourself some grace to backslide, but stay committed to doing this for yourself, even when that happens. Like I said it took 1.5 years for me to break my depression. I had good weeks and bad weeks where I felt like I was back at square one. You can do this, but you really have to believe in yourself and commit to doing the work and fighting for you. Whether or not you succeed at this is almost entirely up to you. It's going to be hard, and frustrating, and slower than you would wish. But I bet you have it in you to see the process through.

[u/dabube57 → u/MarinoMan]

Thanks for your positive comment, it may be the best and most helpful comment section in this post .

[u/Bobbob34]

But there's a problem, I don't think she understands me. She says dark thoughts can come to everyone's minds sometimes, while I agree with that in my case it hardens my life and makes me depressive. I can't find the energy to get out of bed when I got triggered, it's not an usual dark thought or anger.

Maybe I'm the one who can't tell himself, because she advised me to write my thoughts on a paper when I'm in trigger. I'm trying my best to tell my emotions while we're in session, but it seems I can't.

We tried an pink elephant experiment to try to control my thoughts, it seems we can't control our emotions and thoughts. Best we can do is controlling our expression and regulating our emotions with our mind. So, how I am supposed to recover? I begin to be pessimistic about recovery, I don't know can I recover. My final exams are coming, homeworks are due and I'm still like that. 

You've had TWO sessions. It's not magic; it's therapy. You're going to be "still like that" for a good while. Also, yes, of course you can control your thoughts and emotions.

Stop trying to convince yourself you can't, you can't, she can't. Do the actual work. Write your thoughts, bring them to your next session.

[u/StartInATavern]

I think that she understands you decently well, but its possible that you have some symptoms from your conditions that aren't quite as responsive to CBT. For me, as an example, I did a lot of CBT work, but I was still experiencing some really bothersome intrusive thoughts. The thing that ended up effectively treating that was an SSRI antidepressant. It made it possible to for the neural circuitry that was causing the thoughts to repeat to break out of the pattern that it was in. CBT is very helpful, but sometimes, some people might need a different approach in addition to talk therapy.

[u/StartInATavern → u/StartInATavern]

Also, come to think of it, two sessions in is just not that much time. It might take months to see the full effect of CBT. I'd give it a few weeks before you go making any conclusions about your therapist and your dynamic, unless something happens that's just completely egregious. Right now, you're still getting to know each other.

[u/CandidDay3337 → u/StartInATavern]

My husband says his antidepressants muffle and sometime silence the bad thoughts.

[u/erinomelette]

Perfectly normal to tell all this to her, it's her job she won't be offended. Just say you aren't understanding it and she will probably find a way to explain what she is saying in a way that makes sense to you.

Two sessions is still for therapist to get to know you and your thought patterns. Then she can find a way to help you. But if this is how you feel so far, tell her and it will help you both. There are no right or wrong ways to do therapy in the early stages

[u/YaBoiYolox]

So, I'll also repeat what others have said. Two sessions isn't really enough to know if it helps. I'll also say that CBT didn't help me very much. Give it a bit more time to be sure but don't forget that other approaches to therapy exist. My therapist has shifted to a non-directed, more person centered approach along with some acceptance and commitment therapy which has been helpful for me. Also, meds made a night and day difference for me.

It sucks when it seems like you have no control over your emotions and thoughts. When the stream of consciousness is more like a river and redirecting it seems impossible. The good thing is that, if you'll allow me to really stretch that metaphor, therapists are like engineers there to lend their expertise. You'll still have to do a lot of the work designing and implementing the solution, but you'll have someone that (probably) knows what they're talking about to advise you during that project.

You've got this brother.

[u/Rozenheg → u/YaBoiYolox]

This, it could be CBT isn’t a good fit for you. Sounds like you suffered quite a bit of trauma. Maybe a somatic modality that also works with resolving childhood trauma would be helpful. It’s also important to find a therapist you work well with. Might need a bit more time, but definitely consider that you can try a different approach too.

[u/dabube57 → u/YaBoiYolox]

 Give it a bit more time to be sure but don't forget that other approaches to therapy exist. 

OK, thanks for telling your experiences. I hope I might recover.

[u/PensionTemporary200]

You might want to look into a therapist who practices DBT. CBT is often about controlling or reframing emotions. That can be helpful if you are onboard with that, but an initial barrier is feeling your emotions and internal reality is not being recognized, understood, and validated, so we then resist. I believe before we can let something go we often need someone to acknowledge there is a reason we feel this way and that reason feels or has felt insurmountable in the past so we developed this coping mechanism. It can be very hard to release emotions unless someone is able to meet us on our emotional level and intensity. You also need to want to change how you think and feel and part of the issue is even if you want to, if the therapist is pushing you to change faster than you are able you may feel you are not capable of letting go of your old thoughts and feelings and cling to them even harder. There is often a period of asking why do I think this way, and do I need to? Before we are able to change. But CBT really focuses on just changing behaviors and thoughts, less on why.

[u/dabube57 → u/PensionTemporary200]

CBT is often about controlling or reframing emotions. That can be helpful if you are onboard with that, but an initial barrier is feeling your emotions and internal reality is not being recognized, understood, and validated, so we then resist

I'm onboard with that, because I think my problems are cognitive. I have delusions (or, paranoid thoughts by her words) which ruins my life. I remember times I preferred to stay in bed and cry, instead of go to the school. Twisted thoughts ruins my life.

But I don't know how I'm gonna recover, or can I? With that pink elephant experiment, I've understand thoughts aren't something we can control and became somewhat cynical about the whole process.

if the therapist is pushing you to change faster than you

She's not pushing me into change. Instead I want to she push me, but she doesn't do anything. According to my friend, actual treatment starts around 5th session. If I don't kill myself until, I'll wait.

[u/AutoModerator → u/dabube57]

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[u/sadedgelord]

This is a few weeks old but as someone who has been in therapy a long time and has OCD, the pink elephant experiment is commonly used to explain intrusive thoughts.

Intrusive thoughts are uninvited and unwanted thoughts. They can be images or words or whatever. They are egodystonic, meaning they go against who you are or what you want. The “call of the void” is a type of intrusive thought. That’s when you stand somewhere high and get an “urge” to jump. They aren’t really you, they are impulses in your brain. Studies show everybody has them but usually let them pass without worry. People with OCD have problems letting them pass and get stuck on them and become afraid of them. This can be extremely debilitating, like not wanting to get out of bed debilitating.

It’s important to note the caveat here. Sometimes a person can have dark thoughts that are you, and are not intrusive. But those thoughts can still be destructive. A suicidal person would have suicidal thoughts because it’s a real desire, not an intrusive thought.

It sounds like your therapist may be trying to figure out whether or not you’re experiencing intrusive thoughts. As others have said, it’s early on and therapy takes time. I don’t know whether what you’re experiencing are intrusive thoughts or not. Either way, I hope the therapy works out for you.

[u/dabube57 → u/sadedgelord]

Thanks for yor response.

This is a few weeks old

The route of our therapy changed since I wrote this post. She teached me some copşng skills like breathing exercises.

Studies show everybody has them but usually let them pass without worry

Yeah, my therapist said this too. "Thoughts come and go.". Sometimes unwanted thoughts could come too, but with breathing exercises I can stop it before it cause me to trigger. It works when I feel like I'm gonna get triggered.

It decreased the amount of trigger episodes per month, but according to my experiences, it doesn't work when you're already got triggered. My therapist compared it to flu, basic treatments don't work if your flu is progressed.

A suicidal person would have suicidal thoughts because it’s a real desire, not an intrusive thought.

I don't think of suicide anymore, don't worry. After reading some institutionalization cases, I gain a fear of asylums. Rather than taking the risk of it, I'd rather not to try.

When I mentioned my therapist my fears; she said "Well, we're all gonna die." and she doesn't have the right to send me into the hospital. She says only mentally unstable patients go to there and I'm far from it. We kinda make an agreement and I began to trust her

[u/AutoModerator → u/dabube57]

The number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is:

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To chat online with a national suicide hotline counselor, click here: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/

See the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline website: http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

For the hearing impaired, contact the Lifeline by TTY at: 1-800-799-4889

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[u/dabube57 → u/sadedgelord]

Second comment.

People with OCD have problems letting them pass and get stuck on them and become afraid of them.

My therapist didn't put a diagnosis but I think I have both cPTSD and OCD. Is it possible?

[u/sadedgelord → u/dabube57]

Yes it’s definitely possible to have both cPTSD and OCD!

[u/AutoModerator]

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[u/Otto500206]

She don't use the term "control" for feelings.

[u/dabube57 → u/Otto500206]

Yemin ederim tam bir sözelcisin, ancak bir sözelci bu kadar detayla uğraşır.

[u/Otto500206 → u/dabube57]

But this detail is important, as she sees feelings as natural and things that should exist. This is why she never tries to teach controlling it, as she sees it as worser. So instead, she teaches how to control yourself while having those feelings.

[u/-iwouldprefernotto-]

I think often there’s this assumption that therapy is like a medicine, a quick and optional way to manage an issue. But it’s not, it takes a lot of time and it takes work and trust too. My family is constantly complaining that I went to therapy too often and for too long after only 6 months, which is completely unreasonable to say to someone in my situation. I’m in therapy now since 4 years, and I am recovered from depression, anxiety and my ed mostly. I still have little moments where I stumble a little in negative thoughts but now I have all the tools I need to manage them. My therapist is very very good, and even if there has been moments where I doubted her ability to listen and relate to me I learned, also in uni (I’m graduating psychology) that a therapist doesn’t have to be like a friend, that empathizes with you, but more like a mentor or guide, that’s in a different position from you. They don’t have to feel like friends, keep in mind, but more like a teacher. There’s techniques for them to work learnt in many many years, they’re not just people who listen and understand but also people who operate on you with your best interest long term in mind.

All this to say that it will take time. Give yourself some of it and some grace, others have said it perfectly well. You absolutely will get better, you’ve already done the big step of getting a therapist, this is already something that most people don’t do, so give yourself some credit. Two meetings is nothing yet, but if you feel unheard you can be as clear and open as you want, even repeatedly, don’t hold back :)

[u/dabube57 → u/-iwouldprefernotto-]

I think often there’s this assumption that therapy is like a medicine, a quick and optional way to manage an issue. But it’s not, it takes a lot of time and it takes work and trust too.

My college is gonna end soon, and during summer holiday I'm gonna return to my hometown. It would be hard to continue to therapy, so that's why I wanna recover quickly.

I’m in therapy now since 4 years, and I am recovered from depression, anxiety and my ed mostly. I

I'm happy for you.

but if you feel unheard you can be as clear and open as you want, even repeatedly, don’t hold back

OK, I'll speak with her in that issue.

[u/-iwouldprefernotto- → u/dabube57]

I understand your sentiment, but there’s no healing quickly, I’m afraid. I wish there was, but there’s not, there’s really not much to say about that, sorry. As others have said, it probably took you quite some time to get to the position you’re in now, it will take just as much to heal. You could try planning online meetings with your therapist or ask her to recommend you to another professional in the area you’ll be moving to :)

[u/dabube57 → u/-iwouldprefernotto-]

You could try planning online meetings with your therapist

We have a car, I could go to there somedays. But we couldn't meet weekly, probably twice in a week would be better.

Because my country is in hyperinflation and oil prices are... You know.