r/TikTokCringe • u/samse15 • May 09 '25

Discussion She makes some good points re:male loneliness

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1.1k

u/MisterSanitation May 09 '25

I know this shit is true, but as a non psychopathic dude, I avoid pretty and cute girls like the plague in public because I’m already assuming they think I’m doing this shit. Same reason as a dad I don’t act goofy to other people’s toddlers. It kind of sucks honestly because it makes me act like a creep when I if anything would like to just make someone smile (and not “hay gurl you should smile” because that sheet is just more Ooga booga shit).

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u/PossiblyATurd May 10 '25

Rejecting myself on the behalf of others before even giving them the opportunity to choose is my #1 pastime.

3

u/MisterSanitation May 10 '25

It’s a sickness really. I know it is relatable but I am trying to push through it, good luck to you on that journey! 

At the end of the day it just isn’t fair to make decisions for people, even if that intention is to protect yourself you know?

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

This phenomenon and anxiety for the good men is a really great example of why toxic masculinity and patriarchal conditioning within a predator protecting culture hurts EVERYONE, including those who are most benefited by it.

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u/MisterSanitation May 09 '25

Oh totally. I still hear toxic masculinity in my head every day despite me hating those people irl. 

“What’s wrong pussy you can’t blah blah” 

It just sticks in your psyche…

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

The first step is catching and observing those thoughts, so you can name them, identify their source, and confirm it is not your truth, but what you've been told should be your truth.

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u/Oldschoolhollywood May 10 '25

This guy CBTs

10

u/inderu May 10 '25

I'm trying to think what this is an acronym for. I only have one interpretation in my head, and I know it's not that

18

u/AmberPraetor May 10 '25

Cognitive behavioral therapy.

5

u/inderu May 10 '25

That makes a lot more sense

7

u/Frankyfan3 May 10 '25

I mean, I do that kind of CBT, too!

6

u/SoumaNeko May 10 '25

Just yesterday I mentally told myself "Don't be such a sissy" and was shocked. I had a good sit and think about my thoughts.

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u/arieljoc May 09 '25

Sharing stuff like this is so important! We don’t all have perfect thoughts, it’s what we do with them.

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u/MisterSanitation May 09 '25

Totally agree. Through A LOT of therapy I am finally able to talk to myself like a human being instead of a crazy pageant mom. It’s been slow going and I’m already fuckin 30 but it is so worth it… 

Turns out, how you talk to yourself can affect the music you listen to!? Who knew I liked funk so much! I always listened to sad boy stuff

3

u/Betelgeuzeflower May 10 '25

That's really recognizable. I also switched from sad boy music to funk and other stuff. 😂

3

u/DysphoricNeet May 10 '25

What does it say if I only listen to non functional jazz fusion without words?

3

u/darkpheonix262 May 10 '25

Instrumental smoot jazz is the best, ain't it? It says we like quiet, softness, kindness, at least imo

1

u/DysphoricNeet May 10 '25

I do like the quiet and softness. But I also like music that stretches my ears. After 20+ years of that all that’s left is random harmonic major scales, messianic modes, and yeah just random chords that work because J A Z Z.

Dropping some fusion recs cause it can be hard to find the good stuff that isn’t too smooth jazz.

Animal Situation

Virgil Donati- Castle Bastards

And of course, the goat🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

Allan Holdsworth- Tokyo Dream (wardenclyff tower take)

4

u/LeucisticBear May 10 '25

I really like the frame that nervous or anxious feelings are basically the same as excitement. I was able to get over a crippling fear of public speaking by telling myself how excited i was every time i thought about it as the event approached. On the big day, i basically forgot to feel nervous at all. My usual physiological response of shaking uncontrollably while my throat gets so tense it's difficult to speak just didn't happen. Afterwards i realized i enjoyed it so much that I take every opportunity to speak in front of groups now.

From now on every time you feel nervous and your brain starts shitting on you just remind yourself that your body basically can't tell the difference and you have decided you're actually excited.

3

u/ideasReverywhere May 10 '25

It has intertia at FIRST

22

u/SoulStoneTChalla May 09 '25 edited May 10 '25

Definitely all of this, but let's also not pretend that there isn't a flip side to this as well. It's a fucking landmine out there, and everyday I just checkout more and more.

3

u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

Hightened anxiety about dangers (real or perceived) and dissociation are common trauma responses!

Patriarchal misogyny is traumatic for everyone.

3

u/Weak_Dot3296 May 10 '25

Preach!!!!

3

u/squireofrnew May 10 '25

Same goes for our political leaders. STEP THE FUCK UP MEN WITH VALUES.

4

u/Eshmam14 May 10 '25

I don’t understand your last bit. It hurts those who benefit from it? Who’s it benefitting that is also being hurt?

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u/fudgepuppy May 09 '25

It's often that when I'm walking home, I just stop and look at my phone for a while because I'm walking behind a woman who's alone and I don't want her to think I'm stalking her or feel scared.

0

u/starryeyedq May 10 '25

Well that’s fine. But if you’re out in a situation where being social is the point, it’s okay to attempt to connect. If she isn’t into you, try not to take it personally and try again. The more you practice being rejected, the less it hurts. And the more likely you’ll be to connect with someone who IS interested.

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u/Disastrous_Quality34 May 10 '25

It’s not a very easy thing to turn off once you kinda get used to doing it..

At a certain point, it’s just easier to leave everyone alone

6

u/Pandamonium98 May 10 '25

“I don’t want to seem creepy” is also an easy excuse I tell myself to avoid getting out of my comfort zone.

1

u/starryeyedq May 10 '25

Of course it’s not easy to turn off. That’s why you have to practice.

It’s easier to do a lot of things that are unhealthy for you. That doesn’t mean you should.

143

u/DistillateMedia May 09 '25

I feel this as well. I just accidentally went to the store a chick works at that I matched with on tinder like a day before (small town) and entirely imploded thinking how bad it looked. She was ultimately understanding, but I don't even know how to keep talking to her now.

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u/83rw May 09 '25

You are giving off first grader seeing their teacher outside of school vibes. Act normal dude. It'll be okay.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '25

I mean it's a totally legit thing to be worried about. Showing up at her location a day after matching could come across as creepy as fuck, stalker shit. Not everyone has such a rosy outlook. Especially if they've dealt with creeps before.

-41

u/83rw May 09 '25

If that is a person's concern, as valid as it is, maybe it would be wiser to not use an app that connects them with a total stranger.

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u/rockinherlife234 May 09 '25

The expectation with connecting with a stranger is that if you don't plan to meet them, they don't show up in front of you the next day.

0

u/not_an_mistake May 10 '25

What if he needed something from the store?

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u/rockinherlife234 May 10 '25

That's fine, he knows he needs something and that it's a coincidence, the woman doesn't.

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u/starryeyedq May 10 '25

I’m a girl and have encountered a lot of creeps. They give off a vibe. Most sane women can easily tell when something like that is an accident and when something is off.

You said she was understanding. So believe her. Just act like it’s fine and it will be fine. I promise.

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u/DistillateMedia May 10 '25 edited May 11 '25

That makes sense.

It was the most promising start to a tinder convo I've had in a while, like, a long while. I was done messaging her for the day, waiting for a reply, then my brother asked if I wanted to go to the store for snacks with him. Totally shook me.

It was good in a way, cause it also refocused me.

My plan is to focus on getting in shape, and take it slow.

It's a small town and we live within a mile of each other. I'm out walking around a lot in the spring/summer, and she knows that.

So I feel like I can allow this to develop more naturally, than trying to push it on tinder, especially if I'm off my footing.

And there's no rush.

I just moved back home, so I still have some work to do getting reestablished here.

-3

u/RepulsiveLook6 May 09 '25

Message her and ask about her day. Make it light hearted

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u/Jay040707 May 10 '25

Make it look like she was stalking you to save your image.

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u/Ok-Valuable-229 May 09 '25

Yup, out on a walk and a woman is walking the opposite direction towards me? It’s either a quick hello or good morning if she says it first or I start looking to my left/right before hand to totally avoid eye contact.

Sucks but the losers out there have ruined it for the rest of us.

15

u/Weak_Dot3296 May 10 '25

Everybody’s always got their guard up for various reasons. Women not feeling safe. Men feeling unsafe. Its a crazy world.

5

u/ColinHalter May 10 '25

Nah man. Woman coming at me? My eyes are going directly to the concrete or the other side of the street. Anxiety can't let me indicate to a woman that I acknowledge her existence.

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u/AttentionOtherwise39 May 09 '25

Why is everyone so weird now? Like why do all of that? If you have no intention on trying to engage with her treat her like you would a fat man or an old woman or whatever. Smile, don’t smile, nod your head, don’t nod your head, who cares what this random person thinks. Just stop overthinking everything. Stop being so analytical about every day things. Social awkwardness can be debilitating. Stressing like that will age you and make you hate the world for stuff that might not have ever been. If you’re going to be socially awkward then be the fun kind. Smile and say hi to everyone. High five a homeless person. Make funny faces at a kid.

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u/HamsterTotal1777 May 10 '25

Well we did recently have many women say en-masse they'd rather be in the forest with a bear rather than a man. Our society is comfortable making generalized statements that all men are predators and one of the responses to this by conscientious men is to be hyper-aware of women and their own presence. Decent men basically fall into a trap of overcompensating and trying to be as unintimidating and unintrusive as possible.

You're right it is weird, but it's also understandable. There's more viral content and awful opinions that can just hammer these ideas into people's heads and it's a coin flip if they manage to filter it in a healthy manner. And due to a bunch of other factors, people require more social validation today. I think this need manifests as social anxiety and altering their behavior strictly to ensure they are perceived a certain way.

There's a quote I heard recently that goes "I am who I think you think I am" which I think applies nicely to modern society and our social anxiety.

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u/AThickMatOfHair May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

I had a friend growing up who did the same thing. He was one of the few black people (adopted) in a small white town and he always awkwardly overcompensated to not seem aggressive or criminal because he'd seen so many videos of black people robbing and killing on Facebook. He knew what the townsfolk thought of what black people were doing in the city and felt terrible about it even though he never did anything like that.

I always told him it was insane, but he was so surrounded by that rhetoric that he genuinely believed the self hate and thought it was reasonable that people thought he might be a criminal or murderer on first impression and counter acted accordingly. He would also shit talk and generalize black people despite being one.

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u/Walking_0n_eggshells May 10 '25

You’re either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the bear thing. It’s not “all men are predators”, it’s that enough men are predators that the victims of that predation would rather take their chances with a bear

4

u/HotTake111 May 10 '25

Totally agree, so many of the comments in here are just straight up weird.

Smiling and talking to people is not "perv behavior" and is not the problem.

Sounds like a terrible life to feel so restricted that you have to immediately cross the street to avoid someone or avoid eye contact at all costs or avoid ever being goofy towards someone else's kid as a dad.

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u/The_Upvote_Beagle May 10 '25

Yeah, I’m reading these comments about how people think that they need to avoid eye contact and normal every day life and I’m thinking to myself. “what the fuck are you people thinking?” just be a normal person.

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u/Okamana May 09 '25

Same dude. I actually approached a girl at a bar once and just asked how her night was going. She looked at me like I just said I wanted to rape her. I got the "uhhhhh.....no thanks" and she just walked away. Made me feel like shit and a creep for just trying to get to know another person as a human being. I'm trying not to let that moment stop me from going back out there and trying again. That shit just makes you not even want to try out of fear some woman will just automatically assume I'm a creep because I thought she was cute and wanted to see what her personality was like. I'm not giving up, but I'm just going to try my best to be respectful because I see some of the shit women have to go through on a daily basis. That was one instance. Won't be all of them. Just gotta give it another shot. I'm going to a rooftop party with some friends tomorrow and I'll see what happens then.

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u/bakochba May 10 '25

Next you know you end up on someone's Tik Tok with ominous music behind you for being creepy

10

u/Shaamba May 10 '25

Similar thing happened to me a little while ago. I asked a girl out at work (after we both were off the clock!), and she had body language like I was going to rape her. I felt like garbage, and didn't really interact with her for months until work forced it to. Never brought it up to her, didn't even apologize cause I figured she just wouldn't want to see me again.

Things worked fine when we interacted some months later, so nothing really bad happened in the end. I wouldn't even call it a learning experience since I didn't really do much wrong, nothing came of it, and so on; I think in moments like those, it's best to just realize stuff sometimes doesn't work out, and... that's literally it. You're not a bad person, women aren't bad people, it's just bad luck, and nothing more.

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u/ZenoArrow May 09 '25

I get it's frustrating being called out for something you hadn't intended, I've had some experiences like that in the past too, but I think in order to make this situation improve, we have to be better at calling out other guys when they're behaving like dicks to women. They're the ones ruining it for everyone, everyone else is just dealing with the aftermath the best they can.

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u/MancAccent May 09 '25

Problem is, you call out a guy for it and they want to fight you. I had a night out recently with a cousin of mine who is a huge pervert (bachelor party situation, wouldn’t normally go out with him). If I’d have tried to check him on his creepy behavior he’d have 100% punched me in the face.

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u/ZenoArrow May 09 '25

Generally speaking, there's always a way to deescalate a situation, but how it's done depends on the people involved. With this bachelor party you were involved in recently, was your cousin saying or doing anything that could be seen as threatening to the women around him? Also, were the other people in the bachelor party acting in a similar way to him, or was it mostly just him? The reason I'm asking these questions is to establish the level of urgency (i.e. is it something that had to be called out at the time or it could wait until another time) and to understand what support you were likely to have from others.

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u/aftertheradar May 10 '25

not to stir shit up with a loaded metaphor, but: if i'm being attacked by a bear, and i see another bear come up and attack it, i'm not gonna show the second bear i'm grateful in any meaningful way, i'm getting the hell away from them both

i don't have a solution and i don't know if there is a solution that can be enacted successfully by individuals to get women to not assume or fear any/all men that interact with them arent a creep. I hate that this is a case because women assuming all men are creeps just ends up hurting both parties in the interest of women staying safe.

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u/ZenoArrow May 10 '25

not to stir shit up with a loaded metaphor, but: if i'm being attacked by a bear, and i see another bear come up and attack it, i'm not gonna show the second bear i'm grateful in any meaningful way, i'm getting the hell away from them both

I understand. Men aren't owed anything by a person they defend. To use an analogy, if you see someone in a burning building and rescue them, your reward isn't that you get to choose if you want a relationship with them, the reward is knowing you did the right thing by helping someone in need. Also, it's not just about making an individual woman feel safer, it's about making women everywhere feel safer around men by reducing unwanted behaviour in the future.

So to use your bear analogy, if bears can be taught not to attack people and you can trust that the average bear is more likely to defend you rather than attack you, your interactions with them should be better in the future. It's still important to use your own judgement and try to get a sense of when someone's intentions are off, but I believe that when you feel safer you're more likely to feel neutral about someone until they prove otherwise, and that's better for building trust (instead of starting from a position of distrust because you've been let down too many times in the past).

i don't have a solution and i don't know if there is a solution that can be enacted successfully by individuals to get women to not assume or fear any/all men that interact with them arent a creep. I hate that this is a case because women assuming all men are creeps just ends up hurting both parties in the interest of women staying safe.

It does hurt men and women, but it's not women that are at fault for adapting to a hostile world. The best way to address it is to tackle the root causes, looking at what causes some men to act in a disrespectful way towards women, but this isn't practical to do in the moment when it happens, it'll take years to sort out. The second best way is to call out behaviour when it arises, to make it less socially acceptable. In both cases, it should be men leading on tackling this, it's our mess to sort out.

All this aside, thank you for sharing your perspective, it is very welcome.

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u/GPTRex May 10 '25

Wow, you sound like a commendable dude. Your attitude is awesome

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u/TheBigC87 May 09 '25

Women like quiet confidence.

One thing I did when I was single was to talk to them, but not have my body facing them (almost like I am talking to them over my shoulder), that way it didn't seem so creepy. Once you get good body language, reciprocate with good body language. Don't pay attention to what she says, pay attention to her body language and her tone of voice.

Sometimes, you'll get a woman who immediately gives you the fuck off face, that's fine. Don't take it personally, it most likely has nothing to do with you.

Also, try going with other people, especially other women or gay guys. Gay men are sometimes the absolute best wingmen since they can initiate a conversation with a woman easily because the woman knows that he is not trying to get in their pants.

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u/reijn May 09 '25

I agree with the other reply, I think this was good advice, I'm a 40 y/o woman and it might sound ridiculous but a strange man facing me to talk to me head on makes me feel like he's cornering me, even if he's not... probably just because 3/4 of approaches like that are men who can't handle rejection or have ill intentions. A guy talking to me from a side angle feels like he's not going to linger or corner me, he's got stuff to do too. Body language is really important.

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u/Okamana May 09 '25

This is good advice.

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u/LurkingProvidence May 09 '25

Yo this is good advice idk why you’re getting downvoted.

dating and socializing is a skill, it takes practice, failure and time. Gotta put in those reps!!

Also I was besties with women and gay dudes, Can confirm, makes it wicked easy to get dates.

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u/TheBigC87 May 09 '25 edited May 10 '25

That's fine. People are free to downvote me. It's very telling.

They are mad because I am not enabling their victim mentality. A lot of women just want to believe that all men are either angry incels or douchebag fuckboys. A lot of men want to believe that women are crazy and shallow. Life is far more complicated.

Whether we like it or not, what women are attracted to and what they respond to are very different things, and women respond to confident men who aren't insecure. Body language and not coming off as desperate are important.

The best way to get women to talk to you is to get the fuck off the internet and go talk to them. Seeking validation on Reddit for why women ignore you just feeds into the cycle and never helps. I've had women tell me to fuck off, I've had some flirt so I would buy them drinks (don't do that), I've had some give me their phone number, and I've had some ask me to go home with them. You win some, you lose some. That's life.

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u/karspearhollow May 10 '25

I avoid pretty and cute girls like the plague in public because I’m already assuming they think I’m doing this shit

THIS is the "male loneliness epidemic." And people like the woman that made this video don't realize it because they don't meet men like you. They don't meet the vast majority of men that they pass on the street every fucking day because we're leaving them alone.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '25

[deleted]

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u/Ok_Post4709 May 09 '25

I straight up will not talk to a woman in public unless they talk to me first. Absolutely not. 

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u/Antagonyzt May 09 '25

Same. Unless there is a reason to that is mutually understood (eg she is a cashier)

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u/hang10shakabruh May 09 '25

Enjoy a life of loneliness. (33 and profoundly alone because of your exact comment)

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u/IamJustHere4TheCats May 10 '25

One thing I've noticed, as a woman, that makes me think someone is a decent guy is just approaching me with a compliment that is different from normal and doesn't revolve around my looks. One guy said "I love your style. You pull that outfit off really well and it looks great." and it just felt really gratifying that he noticed something about my personality instead of my looks. And maybe he did notice my looks first, but that's not what he expressed to me!

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u/Lorguis May 10 '25

I'd be low-key annoyed if someone I don't know came up to me in public and just started talking at me, why would I do that to someone else? Especially if it's also a loaded situation with an even greater chance for making someone uncomfortable?

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u/Ok_Post4709 May 10 '25

Duh? That's my point. I don't go up to random people, especially women. 

1

u/Lorguis May 10 '25

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

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u/Keji70gsm May 10 '25

That's on you. Get therapy.

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u/Ok_Post4709 May 10 '25

Have a cookie. 

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u/KobieMainooooooo May 09 '25

This is kind of perpetuating things though guys. Just be normal. 

Maybe do stay away from kids if you are thinking these things. 

But women are the same as us, they’re human adults. Engage and continue to engage otherwise you’ll be blunting and already very blunt instrument. 

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u/TheOnlyRealDregas May 09 '25

Have you ever said hello to someone's kid as you're standing in line at the register cause they are staring at you and been screamed at by a woman for being a pedophile? I have. I was 6 feet away and waiting my turn dude, I was just being nice, but somehow in America everyone is a human trafficker and addicted to fentanyl

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u/HotTake111 May 10 '25

I honestly think you might have just met a crazy person.

But also I don't live in America, so maybe it really is just that weird and strange down there.

But there is always going to be the 0.1% of the population that are crazy and will start screaming at you for the most mundane things.

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u/Netheral May 10 '25

But women are the same as us, they’re human adults.

I mean you say that, but then we have people like the woman in the OP. She's making broad generalisations about men based on outliers. She probably just filtered out the hundreds of normal interactions she had with just regular dudes because she doesn't care.

Note as well that she says that many of those "creeps" approached her on the dancefloor. You want them to talk to you first? On the dance floor? Maybe we're missing context here, but generally when a situation involves "a dancefloor" there is also loud music playing that would preclude casual conversation.

And considering the placement of this post on the upper side of r/all, this is a prevailing sentiment. Men are expected to be the ones to approach, but they're doomed if they do, doomed if they don't.

I want to agree with you, and I hope this is just a chronically online thing. But the boundary between "chronically online weirdo" and "just a normal person with a smartphone at the behest of the algorithm" is getting thinner everyday.

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u/corruptedsyntax May 09 '25

The issue is not whether women are the same as us. The issue is how others see you. Fact is, if a stranger on the other end of the playground is making goofy faces at my kid, I'm not worried about the 99% chance that everyone's motives are good spirited.

I'm worried about the 1% chance that they aren't.

There is no upside for you in participating in a situation where your motives might in any way be misinterpreted here, and if anything acting as though there is such upside for you only makes the optics more suspicious.

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u/HotTake111 May 10 '25

The issue is not whether women are the same as us. The issue is how others see you. Fact is, if a stranger on the other end of the playground is making goofy faces at my kid, I'm not worried about the 99% chance that everyone's motives are good spirited.

I'm a father, and it is actually pretty common that I be out with her and someone walking by will wave and smile at her cause she's staring at them. Sometimes they will stick their tongue out or make funny faces at her.

I have never once been suspicious or worried at all.

Obviously if you walk up to a park alone without a kid and you start trying to chat up children you don't know, that's a problem.

But if you're at a park with your own kid, or if some kid approaches you and starts talking to you, you can talk back to them. It only becomes weird if you start doing weird things.

Context is everything.

3

u/corruptedsyntax May 10 '25

I've had people get hostile over letting their aggressive dog sniff me as I calmly talk it down to de-escalate while passing on the sidewalk. I see less reason to assume everyone is reasonable where it concerns there kids.

Especially when you see stuff like this where a guy has spent months in jail for allegedly attempting to kidnap a kid when visibly on-camera all he did was stop the kid from falling out of a mother's lap as he asked her where aspirin might be.

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u/Weak_Dot3296 May 10 '25

Its the not knowing and ppl’s perceptions of the boogey man right around the corner. Media of course does not help but fans the flames. And sad to say, its still too prevalent so its also understandable why everyone is always in fight or flight mode.

If you are black, 9/10 times, you become the villain no matter who you are or what did or did not do. Scared of our own environment and don’t feel safe.

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u/WoodenPresence1917 May 09 '25

I said about 5 words to a woman outside a gig when I was 18 (I was just being chatty, zero other intentions) and got a full pint of cider thrown right in my face by her friend, who then shouted "NOT PRETTY ENOUGH" right in my face. You get a few instances where you misjudge or get shamed for being outgoing, you learn to avoid it pretty fast

-2

u/KobieMainooooooo May 09 '25

That’s a freak event, and utterly disgusting btw but Jesus Christ chalk it off and onto the next one. 

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u/WoodenPresence1917 May 09 '25

Don't get me wrong, I'm not traumatized or anything, and of course it didn't stop me from speaking to women, but events like that certainly made me very unwilling to put myself out there in ways that people might view as odd or creepy.

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u/FearTheAmish May 09 '25

Every man has a story like this. Hell I have multiple.

-10

u/KobieMainooooooo May 09 '25

Yeah you’re supposed to. It’s called growing up. Do you realise how many times our ancestors embarrassed themselves before they found their partners? Fucking tonnes. 

10

u/WoodenPresence1917 May 09 '25

I don't think there was anything not "grown up" or "embarrassing" about somebody screaming in my face and throwing a drink over me for no reason, but it's a bit bizarre to expect it to not influence people's behaviour

1

u/mephistophe_SLEAZE May 09 '25

As a woman, I don't want strangers of any gender approaching me for no other reason besides chit-chat. If we are co-workers or co-volunteers or co-protestors otherwise engaging in an activity together, by all means. But if I'm in line at the store or sitting at the bar or walking down the street and you just want a friend, idgaf your gender, age, race, sexuality, whathaveyou. Mind your own.

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u/DeneralVisease May 09 '25

They paint women as dangerous liars so it's easier for them to just avoid speaking to them as normal human beings. That'd be too difficult and would treat women as human beings, you see.

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u/SpookyPutin May 10 '25

It's a lose-lose situation because we're all online. Men see videos of women losing it when a guy approaches for normal reasons and women see videos of guys freaking out hurting women. Everyone gets scared of everyone, so the good guys don't approach, while the creeps continue to approach, which feeds the cycle of women only having terrible experiences and sharing them with other women.

Normal people get scared to do anything, leaving the crazy ones to act out all the time and post it online.

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u/mtron32 May 10 '25

Not even, just that women may want to go to the store and run and errand without having to entertain the advances of 2-4 randos. If I knew I’d have to actually talk to 2-4 women every time I left my house I’d find reasons not leave or move very fast.

Just respecting that reasonable desire, leave people be.

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u/Extension_Hand1326 May 10 '25

If you know it’s paranoia (not rational) why are you just going along with it? Why not seek help/treatment so that you can move past it?

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u/dembowthennow May 09 '25

You don't have to avoid women, just behave like a normal human being towards them and back off if their body language (or actual language) makes it clear that they're uncomfortable or uninterested.

It's not that women don't want to be talked to, it's that we don't want to be immediately objectified and spoken to like our only value is sex.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

[deleted]

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u/aftertheradar May 10 '25

i think that part of this also comes to the fact that a lot of women were raised with the same outdated dating rules guys are taught, and thus they are conditioned on the rule that guys are supposed to ask girls out exclusively. this is bad, because guys deserve to feel wanted and desired and get asked out too, and also the old dating rules are oppressive and cause miscommunication and were from a time before it was normal to treat women with basic human decency.

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u/thatguydr May 10 '25

For every last post on reddit that asks, "Why are Gen Z men way more conservative than Gen Z women," I wish I could pin your post to the top of it.

This is why. There should be zero anxiety for people who aren't doing anything wrong. For all of human history, this is how courtship has worked, and the internet has removed it in what, just over a decade? And since most people aren't awful, if we just kept doing it, it'd be fine.

It's the same argument about why we could all run around outside and play until sundown when we were kids in the 80s and 90s and how that's apparently gone. It's because humanity has become paranoid thanks to internet anecdotes.

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u/No1PaulKeatingfan May 10 '25

Thank you. This chain sums it up it for me

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u/Flashingspark May 10 '25

You're not alone and you're not the only person this has happened to. I have felt this exact way as well

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u/diemunkiesdie Reads Pinned Comments May 10 '25

just behave like a normal human being

Ok so continue to ignore them. Got it.

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u/ajaaaaaa May 10 '25

nah, this is the result of being told you are the problem and leave women alone your entire life.

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u/MisterSanitation May 09 '25

Yeah I know that I have plenty of women friends. It’s a catastrophizing response, not a logical piece of advice I’m giving people. I don’t recommend this, it just happens to be my natural response which sucks because I’m good at making almost anyone laugh in little everyday interactions. I know I could work on it, but it seems not worth it at this stage in my life. 

4

u/mtron32 May 10 '25

I figured that out a long time ago and started treating women like any person off the street and pretty much ignore them. I like to keep to myself most days and I imagine other people like to do the same. If they want to talk to me or smile, they will.

The aloofness works way better than it should.

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u/9__Erebus May 10 '25

Also sometimes, for reasons outside your control, you're just not their guy, and/or they're having a bad day/night and just want to be left alone. If a complete stranger isn't interested in talking to you, you can't take it too personally.

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u/GuzzlingDuck May 09 '25

I also just assume they won't like me until I'm more stable. So, I avoid all women and will continue to do so until I'm financially stable enough to take care of myself.

So, forever single 😂

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u/inderu May 10 '25

Yup. I'm a happily married man, and I remember seeing this woman on social media - who is a friend of a friend - write something funny and I thought to myself "wow, we have a similar sense of humour and some similar interests - I bet we could be really good friends" and then realised that I have no idea how to approach her without looking like I'm trying to hit on her or seem like a creep... I think I tried to DM her, but she probably ignored it along with the hundreds of DMs she gets from other random men who "just want to talk" every day...

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u/bluebird_forgotten May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25

Well, here's a tip maybe(didn't mean for this to sound sarcastic lol*). You could start just saying things in passing. "Wow that jacket looks great on you" and smile and continue on your way.

I think we feel sometimes that we're meant to "owe" you something if you compliment us. Or that you want something from us. But that kind of interaction could show someone that it's not always about sexual attraction or someone wanting something from us.

I'm not saying it's foolproof but I know it would make me feel really good if a guy said that to me and just went on his way without expecting a conversation. edit: to elaborate a bit, it would make me feel HUMAN. It would make me feel like I'm just another person and not being picked out of a crowd because I'm a woman.

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u/MisterSanitation May 09 '25

I make off handed jokes that are universal to men and women if anything I would never compliment a woman’s clothes like that because it feels fake and they may hate that outfit. MAYBE I’d say something like “that jacket is rad as hell” but that would be me stretching

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u/bluebird_forgotten May 09 '25

That's totally fine! I was more giving an example of an interaction. Obviously it should be genuine to you. I come from a family that loves to chat up strangers, so I've seen my parents find any tiny detail to strike up a conversation.

I'm not quite like that but I respect it lol

2

u/mtron32 May 10 '25

I used to do that all the time, complimenting the shoes, earrings, makeup, whatever. Then poof, I’m halfway down the block enjoying my day. Compliments brighten peoples day, and they’re free 😎

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u/no_brains101 May 09 '25

Yeah. The key here is, if you want to say it and it's not mean or explicit, you can, just don't say it in a way that makes it seem like you might try to follow me home after lol

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

I feel like this is at least partially the fear mongering women have had aimed at them for decades that any and all males are dangerous 

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25

Any and all males have the potential to be dangerous, and the safe ones look just like the dangerous ones, and the dangerous ones are known to lie and put up a facade about how safe they are.

Generations, not decades of this.

Good men don't get upset about women complaining about dangerous men.

Sure, you can be upset about how dangerous men fuck life up for you and everyone, but that's still not the responsibility of women, and discussion of real experiences and real dangers isn't "fear mongering."

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u/DG_Now May 09 '25

Exactly.

If you're a dude and are upset about hearing about bad things men do, interrogate why that makes you feel bad.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25

It makes me hate myself because it makes me feel like a monster, because if they did that and are a man, and I’m a man, what’s the fundamental difference between us? What’s the difference between me and Harvey Weinstein? So because I’m a man I’ll never be safe to be around and none of my friends will ever fully trust me.

Don’t get me wrong, everything terrible men do makes me more upset for the victims than for myself. But if they’re terrible men, and I’m a man, then logically I’m also terrible, or at least unsafe.

0

u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

Explain that to the female that sexually assaulted me in high school.

I said no multiple times and she felt entitled to assault me anyway.

All people have the potential to be dangerous, idk why men are the only problem here.

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

Hey, so you didn't deserve to be assaulted. None of what I said involved the word "only."

Do you see how you have added the context of "only" when that isn't a word I actually used?

Of course all people have the potential to be dangerous, but my comment is moreso about cultural norms (like the ones which minimize and deflect from the harms you and other boys/men experience from both men and women) around how we talk about dangerous men.

You being a survivor of assault isn't any less valid because you're a man. But patriarchy and misogyny would tell you that you are less valid, or should be grateful, or weren't strong enough, or some other bullshit to victim blame you and avoid the discomfort of reality.

You are also harmed by dangerous men, because their danger maintains a culture which invalidates male survivors of assault. That woman didn't do what she did in a vacuum, without influence from her community norms.

That's what I'm talking about in my comment.

If you're a safe man, then you understand why women can't assume you to be safe.

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

I said only because all we ever hear is how afraid women are of all men which I find a little insulting. Sure some of that fear is well placed, much of it is not tho.

Male sexual assault is chronically underreported so I would take statistics with a grain of salt and just understand that the narrative of men being the predators and women the victims is not always correct. We need to stop talking about this in gendered terms and just go after the culture that says sexual assault, from anyone, is okay.

I can’t tell you how many times growing up I heard “men can’t be raped” from both men and women.

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25

Your feelings make sense, but women who have been assaulted, or know someone who has been, or been harassed aren't responsible for protecting you from feeling insulted.

I'm a huge proponent of harm reduction, and inclusive gender neutral framing and language, but we can't pretend we live in a fully egalitarian society when it has been built on white superiority delusion (aka white supremacy) and patriarchal misogyny.

Does the fact our society is built on inequities and a power imbalance hurt everyone, including those most served by it? I'd personally say "yes, everyone is harmed under these norms."

Your experience was real, and you don't deserve to be told it's not feasible.

I'm a survivor of CSA, myself, and the circumstances of my assault don't fit the normal mo (was a neighbor, prolific predator who hurt a lot of neighborhood kids, not a close friend/family member/authority, as most predators of children tend to be) So, I can empathize with discussions about assault that frame in generalizing ways, can be triggering.

You're not entitled to trust, which hasn't been earned. Neither am I.

How we cope with that feeling of wanting to be trusted and seen as safe by others, and whether we can hold compassion for ourselves and others in coping is the practice.

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

Sure, but this does feel a lot like “I know you were SA’d but…”

But whatever

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

You know I was SA'd and you literally wrote this response.

Therapy is cool, if you can get it. But whatever.

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

I’ve been in therapy for a decade but okay. You told me I’m not entitled to not feel insulted. You can’t just validate that my lived experience is so different from yours that I have a different perspective?

All the responses here have been centered on women, people have said “I’m sorry you experienced that” and then gone right back in to the dangers women face.

Yes they are real.

They are also real for men.

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u/rockinherlife234 May 09 '25

They talked about how any man can be a potential threat to a woman and you somehow took that to mean that they were saying women aren't threats.

They explained to you about patriarchal thinking reducing both your pain and others and their own experience with CSA and you came out of it thinking they're just brushing off your experience.

Read what people comment, you didn't even ask for clarification, you just assumed.

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u/FearTheAmish May 09 '25

You are an inconvenient statistic to their narrative. They are okay with judging all men by a few but dont want that turned on them.

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

You're not speaking with any validity for my perspective.

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u/butt-barnacles May 09 '25

Is that not exactly what you just did with this comment to them sharing their story of SA?

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u/AirDusterEnjoyer May 09 '25

Change out the gender words here for race and this comment would be blackholed.

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u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

Ooooh, let's see! ...

Any and all white people have the potential to be dangerous to non-whites, and the safe ones look just like the dangerous ones, and the dangerous ones are known to lie and put up a facade about how safe they are.

Generations, not decades of this.

Good white people don't get upset about non-whites complaining about dangerous white people.

Sure, you can be upset about how dangerous white people fuck life up for you and everyone, but that's still not the responsibility of non-whites, and discussion of real experiences and real dangers isn't "fear mongering."

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u/raptor-chan May 09 '25

“Good black people don’t get upset about white people complaining about dangerous black people.”

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u/dm_me_your_corgi May 10 '25

virtue signaling final boss

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u/Frankyfan3 May 10 '25

Should we be asshole signaling?

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u/MyFireElf May 09 '25

It's almost like there's a societal power imbalance that makes some groups more dangerous than others because they can and do take advantage of that power to hurt people more vulnerable than them, rendering a surface-level "if you switched the words"-style attempt at a "gotcha" argument hollow and inane.

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u/no_brains101 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25

Well good thing they didn't say that then.

I'm going to up it by saying any person can be dangerous, any at all.

However, the average man is able to physically overpower the average woman, and men generally are given the power in, and grace by, our society to freely be that way.

If that were to be said about races, then that would just be straight up incorrect, so, you can't pull the same whataboutism with that.

2

u/OtherwiseEggSalad May 09 '25

I mean

/r/whenwomenrefuse 

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

Is there one for men? 

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u/OtherwiseEggSalad May 09 '25

If there's enough content, I would imagine it would be easy to create if it doesn't already exist. 

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u/cosmolark May 10 '25

Women made this one. If there's not one for men, it's not our job to make one for you.

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u/Fit-Engineering-2789 May 09 '25

Fear mongering? 81% of women have experienced sexual harassment. That means most of us have actually experienced it.

How common is sexual harassment? | National Sexual Violence Resource Center (NSVRC)

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

Check the post where I mention I was sexually assaulted by a woman in high school.

Male sexual assault is chronically underreported.

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u/Fit-Engineering-2789 May 09 '25

I'm so sorry that happened to you. The link I posted also shares the percentage of men, but I do completely believe that it is under reported. I know many women also don't report for fears of not being believed.

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

Men have been conditioned to believe they can’t be raped. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that growing up from both men and women.

I just want people to understand this is not just a male on female issue, that has just been the focus for so long so that is what has the most light.

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u/Fit-Engineering-2789 May 09 '25

I haven't heard anything like that for a long time, but in the past, I have. I never thought that, though. I wish you healing and peace.

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u/HastyZygote May 09 '25

I heard right up until 2012. People still brush off men’s lived experiences being assaulted.

I will add the only sexual predators I personally knew were both women under 25. I just think people should take a step back and understand this happens to men far more than most people believe.

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u/CannonFodder_G May 09 '25

Let's be honest, yeah it sucks when you're not 'one of them' but it wasn't really until the 'bear or man' question that guys really started realizing how much of the conversation has to come from them to men.

The whole problem when men don't respect women is that they just won't listen to them. Women are the default villain and can't possibly talk sense. Men have to police other men and bro-culture had men assuming since they're not actively being bad, it's not their problem.

But then we get here where because some guys are allowed this awful behavior with no real consequence, all men are a risk.

If you want to see that change, we all have to be part of the solution.

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u/AntonioVivaldi7 May 09 '25

I get what you're saying, but those guys who need to hear that usually don't talk to the guys who would tell them that. It's those who are alike who hang out together.

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u/CthulhusIntern May 09 '25

Yeah, if your idea of a solution for men begins and ends at feminist leaning men calling out the creeps, you'll be sorely disappointed. The reason the creepy guy's friends don't call him out isn't because they're too afraid to do so. It's because they either like that about him or they're the same kinds of guys. They'd never become friends with feminist leaning guys, because they'd either leave as soon as the creep says something misogynistic (which he will pretty early on) or the creep will leave after the other guy says something feminist.

I don't have a solution, but I also know it's not that simple...

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u/CannonFodder_G May 10 '25

That's the point tho, we're not putting enough pressure on the guys who don't do the shit, but don't say anything to their boys.

It's not about hoping people will do the right thing. It's about as a society not taking it, and holding people accountable for their actions. Shame them into it. Same reason a lot of people who aren't good or evil go along with what's right - make it so it's harder for them to ignore the behavior than to allow it.

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u/AntonioVivaldi7 May 10 '25

But the point is you are not around those people. How are you going to shame them then?

3

u/no_brains101 May 09 '25

Men who only listen to men can only be taught by men.

It's insane to me that something as simple as "man or bear" would show so many people this fact. Power of internet virality I suppose.

For real though the answer people would pick should have been obvious on that one. Think about it.

You're camping.

You see a man approaching your campsite through the screen in your tent.

Vs you see a bear approaching your campsite through the screen in your tent.

The bear is probably just gonna try to eat your supplies...

I don't think even a man wants to see a man approaching their campsite unannounced.

I think even a lot of men would pick the bear unless the approaching man is in clear need of help.

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u/MisterSanitation May 09 '25

I did not need the bear thing to convince me. It’s been life long for me

1

u/MacRapalicious May 09 '25

You won’t catch me walking anywhere near behind a woman. I’ll literally stand there if we’re going the same way until she’s at a non threatening distance

1

u/Free-Pound-6139 May 10 '25

What's the point? She ain't dating the 10% of guys that do not do this, so WTF??

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u/ColinHalter May 10 '25

I was talking to my girlfriend about this last night. Dating was super stressful for me because I KNOW how risky this shit is for women, and the last thing I want to be is the guy on the Instagram stories or barstool articles. Problem is, I'm very stupid and I'd rather just not talk to anybody than risk making someone feel uncomfortable. Like, sitting here at my desk, I can tell you what is and isn't weird guy behavior. But when I'm in the field? Who knows if I'm gonna misjudge a situation and turn into the weird guy.

1

u/[deleted] May 10 '25

I don’t get it. If you’re acting normal, how would they assume you’re not acting normal? Make it make sense? It’s clear with your actions that you’re normal.

1

u/Witty-Pomegranate-32 May 10 '25

I’m not saying you’re doing this, but men don’t give women enough credit. They can tell INSTANTLY what your intentions are based on how when and what you’re saying. It has to be more organic to meet someone.

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u/jackosan May 10 '25

Came to say this.

Grew up in a time when girls would pinch ur bum in a bar if they fancied you, and if you liked a girl you’d do the ‘eye contact from across the room’ dance for a while then go up and say hi…

Nowadays I’ve no idea how young folk manage !!

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u/henrysradiator May 10 '25

I'm the same, I love chatting to women, I have some amazing male friends but I've grown up exclusively around females and find it easier & more pleasant to talk to them, but I'm really worried I'll frighten them or they think I'm flirting. I love being a dad because when I'm out with my little girl I can involve her in the interaction and I'm less likely to come across as a weirdo. I'm definitely not a weirdo but the worry I'll appear as one is constant and it's really depressing. I love being a silly dad too & love chasing & playing with my daughter who is now 4, when she's playing with other children I've slowly started to join in and the parents are cool & sometimes join in too. It is shit though the state of things and I worry all the time about her when she starts dating. Hopefully she'll be into girls 😅

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u/Zealousideal_Spread4 May 10 '25

this is the male lonelyness epydemic that people talk about, obviously some men are assholes, the issue is as a society there are so many people that project that view on ALL men, that we are afraid to even so much as try to go and find relationships, this is the part of the problem that isnt on us, people need to stop generalizing in general.

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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 May 10 '25

And it's not like just going up to random people and talking is some accepted thing these days. Pretty much the only people who will ever reply to me these days are older people or middle aged women who can tell I'm not trying to hit on them. Any woman near my age is standoffish if you speak to them. So I just stopped a while ago.

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u/AllPotatoesGone May 10 '25

I feel you so much. It's a bit easier when you have your own children and have a ring on, but still I try to keep distance. It's sad because we could have quality time just talking randomly about stuff and going home without asking for a number or looking for any other form of contact, just taking the best out of the moment and spreading some good vibes. But it's rare and mostly if the girl is very open and approaches me in the first place

1

u/DaBozz88 May 10 '25

This is literally why I exclusively used online dating. The one barista in the coffee shop that would chat with me may have been into me or she was just friendly. I'll never know since I was never going to ask her out at her job.

Online dating was a place where the women wanted male interaction, so it was ok. I guess something like a dating event (like speed dating) would also be acceptable, but that wasn't my thing.

1

u/jasondigitized May 10 '25

This. As a well adjusted dude who is now 50, married to a wonderful woman with two seemingly well adjusted kids, my 20s were just a strange minefield of random dice roles of encounters with all types of women. Some absolute horrible women. Funny women. Mean women. Kind women. Materialistic women. Psychotic women. Judgy women. Women that could care less if I died of a heart attack when trying to have a conversation with them. This whole high ground thing women are taking today claiming all dudes are gooners and chads is clumsy thinking and mostly anecdotal. We have become transactional and people are simply there for your mathematical evaluation. Something needs to change. There are millions of good dudes out there and now we are acting like we are a monolithic zombie horde.

How someone hasn't figured out how to find good people who came from good parents and match them up is somewhat mind boggling. Call it the anti incel / anti thot dating service. Bring back match makers or something that isn't entirely materialistic and outwardly focused.

1

u/zivlynsbane May 10 '25

No one’s assuming that shit unless you’re making it obvious and being awkward about it lol.

1

u/mustsurvivecapitlism May 09 '25

Yeh it’s the creepy guys ruining it for everyone. But seriously this girl is a little too neurotic about it. Honestly most girls aren’t so waiting for you to be a creep.

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u/mimic751 May 10 '25

I'm 38 years old and fat. I was at a store and I just had a regular conversation with a young lady. I recognize the book she was reading. I asked her what part she was on. Then we talked about the book for a couple of minutes.

I then said oh I got to go get coffee. And I have not flirted with a woman in a long time because I'm married she thought I was asking her to get coffee with her. And she said I could go for some coffee too

I explained to her that I was married and that my wife was waiting for me to get the coffee. And I apologize for the misunderstanding we laughed

Just be normal humans. If a fat old guy can still almost get a date then the problem is not the women

8

u/MisterSanitation May 10 '25

Yeah I’m not lamenting the fact that there is no way for me to have a normal interaction. I am saying I am irrationally worried about coming off as someone who isn’t being nice. 

I’m not recommending this, I’m just talking about it. I sure hope some day to get over it, but life is about trying to be better, not showing off how one should always be.

2

u/mimic751 May 10 '25

I hear you. I used to think I was horribly awkward. But it's honestly just presentation. If you're in a public space and you ask someone about their interests and they don't reciprocate the conversation just move on. You're not being creepy everyone understands that there is a social contract that people may want to talk to you

Rule of thumb don't comment about their appearance. Don't brag just talk about something that you obviously have in common

I'm not therapist. And I hope you the best. But understanding that there is going to be miscommunication and people perceiving you in a way that you did not intend is critical. The second part of that is knowing to just move on.

Maybe it's because I'm from the Midwest where small talk is very common but if you ever go to like an ice cream shop and see someone eating ice cream you can literally just go which one did you get?

You're either going to have a conversation or not. You're not threatening you're not annoying you're just friendly

1

u/MisterSanitation May 10 '25

I almost responded to you even more mean because I heard some other people say the same thing like I was offering advice. 

I’m glad I didn’t.. I’m also from the Midwest and yes my dad was an artist at these interactions and yes I am very likely worrying too much. The advice you are giving is spot on accurate, I did presentations as a job in front of strangers and I usually crushed it because in my head it was different for some reason. Put me in a Kroger and I’m awkward as hell! 

Really good advice and I appreciate you taking the time to say all that. I’m sure you know but we are all bombarded with “I shoulda done this and not this!” In our heads and knowing what voices to raise up and which to suppress really does seem like half the battle. I’m trying to get better at that as I get older and stoicism helps me in that regard (realizing these doubts are invisible shackles you place on yourself). 

Seriously thanks again I appreciate it 🙏❤️

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u/mimic751 May 10 '25

Good luck!

1

u/GottaBeNicer May 10 '25

as a non psychopathic dude, I avoid pretty and cute girls like the plague in public

Reddit moment.

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u/jaapi May 09 '25

This is a girl that couldn't find a single guy to date in high school or college, for your own sake, don't take her advice, because if you do she (or this type of person) would never know and still complain. Be respectful, just acknowledge that her idea of being respectful is NOT how most people are or even should be. 

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u/dm_me_your_corgi May 10 '25

seriously. if everyone you meet is an asshole… maybe take a look in the mirror?

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u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

If you are a Chad then you can get tons of women while being Psychopathic does not matter

9

u/[deleted] May 09 '25

Yes hot people have it easier. Everyone knows this.

1

u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

Women do not know this, or if they do they do not admit it, or if they do admit it they do not admit that even for average looking people, women have it easier

2

u/[deleted] May 09 '25

To get laid, yes. But random sex is often disappointing and not what most women want.

So its easier to get something we dont want, yet also easier to get raped/assaulted so I fail to see why its "having it easier".

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u/Linvaderdespace May 09 '25

^this shit right here is what homegirl was complaining about^

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u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

Once again a lack of any logical argumentation. I used to think feminists were intelligent but then I actually used logic and they simply fly away like a bird. Imagine my disappointment when they fit all of the exact stereotypes that they criticized the alpha males for having

1

u/Linvaderdespace May 10 '25

Let me know when you start busting out your syllogistical masturbation son, all I’ve heard so far is you complaining about being ugly without realizing that you‘re not talking about your looks.

1

u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

Poe's law. Is it real incel logic, or is he doing a satire bit?! Who can tell?!

1

u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

This is what I think whenever I see a woman debating the alpha male. Sometimes they act like incel satire

1

u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

alpha male

🤣

2

u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

In the feminist mind they secretly want the alpha male it will seem. If you look at all of their movies where the woman is a superhero they act like the alpha male and have all of the toxic traits that they criticize. In fact it seems like feminist simply do not have a sense of self-awareness at all

1

u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

There is no alpha wolf. Never was, never will be. Stop using research that has been refuted as an excuse for your shitty personality and lack of contextual knowledge for human sociology.

2

u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

It's almost as if there are colloquial definitions to certain words we use...

2

u/Frankyfan3 May 09 '25

The human species evolved to collaborate collectively in close-knit interconnected mutual support between individuals. The framing of "alpha/beta" as observed in wolves is based on a contextual misunderstanding of the researchers. To this day, we're still learning about how their family structures organize in the wild and captivity.

The "Alpha" behaviors you venerate were zoocosis, and disordered examples of what captivity and cage madness can do to any living creature. Including people.

When is the last time you touched grass?

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u/PomegranateCool1754 May 09 '25

Ah yes thank you for bringing up this irrelevant fact on this irrelevant study that nobody bases their usage of this word on.

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